Couple Matching Pistols

[command450]

Hello Bill,

What I find interesting is the way the numbers have been applied,each individually vs in a block. If they were field applied they would be haloed from the stress on the metal being pushed aside,much like early lugers that had numbers and proofs applied after finishing, one of the first thing professional collectors look for.

It is rather odd...

Buxton's volume II offers some great info on spreewerke,i and he notes most of the knowledge is "rudimentary" because the Russian steam roller ate up any records that may have been left.

I always liked how they varied in tones and finish.where some could be well finished and others crude and all business!

[BillinVA]

Thanks William. I was wondering if perhaps the pistol had been refinished at some time, and photo of the locking block plunger is a sure way to see if it had been dip-blued. Talking with some P.38 RKIs, all seem to agree your magazine serial number looks very much like post-war combloc renumbering, particularly since Walther was the only P.38 manufacturer to serial number their magazines. Someone else also thought your holster might be more properly a P.35 (Hi-Power) holster, if it helps.

[Wagriff]

Well, Bill...I guess my friend stopped on his way back from being discharged in 1945 and had one of the 2 clips with his war trophy stamped with a number so it would look nicer and match the gun itself. And while he was waiting, he went over to a surplus dealer and fished out a nice HP holster and swapped it for his ratty old P38's, as the color was prettier than on his and he thought it would look swell. When he finally got home, he changed his mind and tossed the whole rig into his trunk in his basement and then had a stroke which knocked out the area of his brain that retained this memory segment. When almost 30 years had passed and his heart condition was getting worse, he had a friend come by and while they were digging around in his old Army stuff he re-discovered the old gun he'd done so much work to and was embarrassed to see such a mess, so he decided to give it to his friend for nothing. The both of them had a great laugh over reading his papers his officer had written for him to take it home, as the numbhead actually wrote it up like he'd recovered it from the field or something like that. When my old friend died almost exactly a year later, he was Still chuckling over his handy work. I'm told by his family that his last words were "I really stuck it to my good friend-that stupid clod..." or at least they Thought that was something like what he said-they weren't sure, as his speech was never the same since the old stroke..Sneaky old guy... You're absolutely right, Bill. Those conniving old Army guys really were clever about how they hoodwinked their good friends with their wiseguy malarky. It's taken nearly a Half a century, but Thank God there's finally come along some experts in the field to unravel all the tinkering and lies that went on over all that time. At least Now, we Finally know! I was thinking of casting it into a brick of acrylic and making it into a cool doorstop. I probably should unload it first, though.....

[BillinVA]

No need to get nasty, William. I'm only relaying what collectors and experts far more knowledgeable than either of us have said. Quite honestly, I've always been one to judge the merits of a firearm or any other item based on facts, not war stories and hearsay. I think 90% of all Lugers I've seen offered for sale by non-Luger collectors were captured from an SS officer, for example. There's a saying among collectors that goes, "buy the item, not the story." The facts are that the holster more closely resembles a P.35 holster than a P.38 holster based on the few photos you provided; and no one other than Walther ever serial numbered their magazines, ever (with the apparent exception of a single gun produced in Czechoslovakia in July 1944.) if your friend is indeed correct in his story then he has something almost as rare as Hitler's mustache.
To the OP, my sincerest apologies for us co-opting your thread.
EOM

[Wagriff]

Bill...I originally posted photos of this pistol in response to a request to see one with a numbered magazine. I did Not post it for authentication and endless debate and arguing over it. As I said, I picked it up from an old and good friend who recovered it himself in Germany in 1945 during his time in the Army in WWII and it sat untouched and unfired ever since he got back from Europe, in his trunk in his basement until he and I were looking through his things one day in the late 60's and came across it again. Everybody always says "Buy the Item-not the Story" and in most cases this is true, but in this particular case, I Knew the story was true and to have to continually explain each and every point is frustrating. And, absolutely, I would Love to ask him more about it, but as I said earlier, he's been Dead for the last 4 decades, so that's not going to happen.

Having said that, didn't you read what Leon DeSpain of the P38 Forum said of it? That an armorer in the field was the most likely explanation for it being numbered? He also went on to say that he had never seen one numbered in the exact spot where this one is and that he basically could not explain why it was? Or are you seriously suggesting that somehow the exact same numbered Czech made JVD magazine from a Walther found it's way into this particular gun by chance? I personally read over the capture papers of this gun and it had the serial number listed for it in the description. When it got back to the States, it was Never fired since and was stored in a crappy damp basement box for the next 20+ years just as you see it. I had to totally strip it down and clean,degrease and re-oil it to get it back to the state it is still in today. So, no one changed any numbers on it,no one hunted down and miraculously found a Walther clip with crudely hand stamped numbers that matched the serial number to the pistol and added it to it and no one reblued it or changed the holster. The manufacture date is July 1944. The Holster is dated 1944. Both made in late war Eastern Europe. It is your standard run of the mill soft brown leather flap P38 holster-the same as 1000 others you can see anywhere on the net- and has never had anything in it like a Browning HP since the day it was issued. The leather has molded around it like a glove from over almost 70 years of having it in it. I've been absolutely patient and have tried to accommodate your every request for many difficult to take photographs on it and if I had known they were being requested for the sole fact to tell me why it can't exist I could have saved myself considerable time,effort and frustration.

Now, I have wasted enough of my time and trouble with this and this is my last post on it also. I, too, apologize to the original poster for monopolizing his thread. I honestly had no clue that a simple posting of what I had Thought was an interesting item would turn into an endless ridiculous problem. Back into storage it goes and when I'm gone someone Else can worry about arguing about it.