1934 Political cap Eagle

[paulscoot]

Hi folks ,I picked up this 1934 pattern political cap eagle at a fair last weekend . I have been after one of these for a while after seeing the one atop one of Mr Friedrich Berthold's splendid black SS caps it also reminds me somewhat of the grip eagle on the "Christmas tree" SA daggers . Stamped on the back is RZM 72 (no M1/ prefix) now then folks is this the number for Paul Cramer as per buckles ,Party badges etc ? or is it, do you think the number for Fritz Zimmerman ? ,Thanks for looking ,Regards Paul

[Hoovy]

try to find prices for hats pins and dagger schethes

[bsiwula1]

Hello nice eagle. It's a Zimmerman piece. Best regards.

Brian

Early SS cap Eagle ?

[paulscoot]

Thanks Brian , Fritz Zimmerman Stuttgart was my thoughts also ,Just seems strange that RZM 72 belt buckles (no M4/ prefix) is given as the code for Paul Cramer & also for Party badges (no M1/ prefix) regards, Paul

[bsiwula1]

Hey Paul I have M4 (buckles) 72 as Deumer. Cap/metal insignia including badges would/should have the M1 prefix with associated manufactureres numbers by say 35/36? which shouldn't change throughout the existence of the RZM. The reason your cap badge has no M1 prefix would be that the RZM was in it's infancy in 34 and codes were given out that mid year. Perhaps they had not laid out specific designations for manufactured goods (M1,M2 etc) but had assigned the makers numbers? Therefore the sole logo and maker number. I think for quite some time there was confusion as to what was exactly standard as you see "transitional" pieces for some time into production of various items daggers and buckles especially. Best regards.

Brian

[paulscoot]

Yes Brian you are correct M4/72 is Deumer buckles , Paul Cramer for buckles later in the period ,say 1935 on, was M4/44. I agree that earlier there was no M designation my point is that if you put RZM72 in the search engine some HJ buckles come up attributed to Paul Cramer (maybe he had the 72 designation before Zimmerman ?) regards,Paul

[bsiwula1]

Apologies duplicate

[bsiwula1]

It s a good question Paul. This information is as per Angolia's buckles and Brocades book revised addition. It has early RZM HJ buckles marked 72 as unidentified? Maybe new information has since been documented also reference as to the number 72 designation and year awarded.

[bsiwula1]

Paul I think this sums it up well David North is certainly qualified to answer this question and his response is as good an explanation as can be found. From one of the previous HJ RZM72 buckle threads (pre M4 prefix). Paul Cramer it is.



Also a very interesting thread on buckle markings, a good read.

Early Nickeled Hitler Jugend Buckle w/RZM Code KH 24

[paulscoot]

Thanks for the help & interest Brian I really appreciate it ,Regards ,Paul