DAF Plaque

[Adrian Stevenson]

Good info!

For me, that puts it to bed. I have never bought one and the lack of fittings and any clear indication of what they were for has always bugged me.

My advice to anyone owning one would be to return it.

Cheers, Ade.

[StuG III]

Thank you, Metallwarenfabrik, for the fantastic info and insight. Appreciate someone willing to call a spade a spade.
Good advice, Ade, will be returning this immediately, if not sooner.

Tom

[Greenhorn]

Metallwarenfabrik

NOW I realize who Met....rik is! Seems we do know each other, afterall. Let me be clear on this one, I was defending the gentlemen that authenticated the DAF/cogwheel thingy, not the item itself. I am not familiar with the item so, no comment. With the authentication, I don't think anyone was pushing a dealers site. I believe there are folks with good charachter and determined moral fiber on this site. I don't personally know anyone here, but from my time here, most have been upstanding.

The problem lies with dealers selling anything, anyone will buy. Swastikas sell, so there you have it, Hungarian badges and DAF wheel thingys. Again, know what you are buying!!!

Met.....rik, your catalog may be unknow/unseen, don't know. I have seen fakes in catalogs and assumed everyone else had also. I was looking for more information from you, not defending the cogwheel. Please, do post more

Recently I called the Hungarian badge a fake, you know which one, and now the thread poster has not replied to the thread, he has been offended. It was not my intention to offend him but this will happen when you call something a fake, such as you have done with this cogwheel thingy. Proof is Proof!!

I wasn't giving you a hard time, I was giving the benefit of doubt to someone that has shown genuine integrity.

Green Who is Mark? lol

[Jo Rivett]

Recently I called the Hungarian badge a fake, you know which one, and now the thread poster has not replied to the thread, he has been offended. It was not my intention to offend him but this will happen when you call something a fake, such as you have done with this cogwheel thingy. Proof is Proof!!

This is hard call, not because its "not known" what Hungarian Badges are real or not, but that most of what is pictured in reference books is fake, and in lots of cases with fantasy colors. Most collectors have no idea what a real badge looks like, and although i do have images, i cant, and wouldnt anyway, post them. The clue to what they look like though, is easy, The extremely rare Hungarian Youth enameled badge, as well as the - just as rare - Hungarian HJ Proficiency badge show a distinct makers mark, and this mark, will also be found on original Hungarian badges. But you will win the lottery twice in row before you find one.

You can put these into the same category as the DANZIG LUFTSCHUTZ enameled badge, 99,9% of everything ever published of seen is a post war copy, and although genuine badges that looked very similar did exist, collectors wont have seen them.

With items like this, that made it into print 40-50 years ago as real, it will be extremely difficult to "prove" anything to others, as its long accepted that whats about now, is genuine, or that the more modern copies of older looking badges are copies but that the older looking ones are genuine. Which in some cases is true, as copies or copies of copies of Fantasy badges exsist, making any real clarification impossible, unless "other" methods are applied.

These "other methods" will be elaborated on when i have time.

Getting back to the DAF plaque, StugII sent me a link to an old discussion on another forum, where they were given the thumbs up and declared as Canteen Plates? i dont know if cross-linking is allowed here, so if it is, i will leave that up to StudII. I still stick with Frisbee, but a CAKE-FORM could also be considered? or SANDCASTLE mold?

I do understand though why some posters wont respond to negative reviews, if your knowledge is based on Post war reference books, as well as knowing that a good portion of any Forum is made up of people who just say Yeah, or Ney for silly reasons, then you will be approaching any discussion knowing that not everyone is knowledgeable or serious, and seeing as you dont know the people behind the names, that adds a touch of skepticism as well. Add the fact that many fantasy and fake items are still being pictured in books to this day, with bogus reasons for their existence, it becomes easier to see why in many cases, the "last word" will rest with what was published 40 years ago, compared to a group of posters who dont know each other, all having different opinions based on nothing factual. The end result will be the original poster choosing older literature over the opinions, and thats why debates go round and round forever. After all, "some author" who in many cases you dont know either, and is possibly dead by now, had the balls to PRINT what he did, and if it remains unchallenged, automatically becomes accepted as truth, and wins over the Forum opinions of people who, as you will see from that old thread mentioned above on another forum, will, in many cases, DREAM UP any old reason as to why the item is either good, or bad.

Now take into consideration that no forum is dedicated to one item, with any Thread, no matter how useful, becoming lost in time, and not "per-click" accessible for those looking. A possible reason why rare items are seldom shown, and why those with real knowledge, and a genuine interest in Helping, or clarifying, refuse to participate. Lots of them also just want to get on with their hobby, and are sure-footed enough that they dont need to participate on Fora, the stress factor is also a big issue, as well as the mind games, and the reasons that some folk come up with in either slamming a good piece, or giving a fake a good review. The whole thing is a tripple edged sword with barbs at the tip.

[StuG III]

The link to which Metallwarenfabrik is referring: DAF cog wheel - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
Item was claimed to be a dish underlay.......really??

Tom

[Greenhorn]

Thanks for the link Tom

No offense to the poster on WAF, but a dish underlay is just silly. The symbol of TR power would not be used as a coaster. Just a guess

Green

[Pierre N]

A lot of text to make it? questioning,
Have you had in your possesion the full set?
This wheel is mounted on a bakelite base.
This is not a pole top as mentioned Wittman.
I wonder how such a judge or some object without ever having been in possession.
I'd be more surprised that I can prove that this object have been manufactured in the 1970s.
Me, I could see the bakelite base, and what I saw of it was not based modern.

I tell myself no expert, and I have no evidence of time to prove anything, but I got this wheel with the base.
We see only very rarely with the wheel base, bakelite is too brittle?
Anyway, this wheel will remain a piece questionable until proven otherwise
and I have not seen that evidence.

[Wagriff]

"I'd be more surprised that I can prove that this object have been manufactured in the 1970s."
Well...when one sees them for sale in a fakes catalog from the 70's....that kind of tells the tale, doesn't it? As for the bases, I would imagine that anyone could add such a thing to the wheel, for nothing else, than to give a useless object a sort of function.

[StuG III]

Pierre, the question now is not what is the evidence against it being real, rather what is the evidence that it is? I think Metallwarenfabrik has successfully put this one to bed......

Tom

[Jo Rivett]

I wonder how such a judge or some object without ever having been in possession.

Because i am a human, and not a machine that only switches on when something is placed it its hands. Me needing to "have it", means that you have not read, or understood the lot of text.
This catalog, has something in common with what you are saying though... "You must see to appreciate"
On a side note, i cant see what kind of plaque your old Polaroid pictures are showing, so have obviously not included it into any of the long texts, or even mentioned it. I was referring to the one that started this thread off, and the one that Wittman, or someone else added a screw,bolt to, as well as the many other DAF canteen plates, Jelly molds, plaques, Flag pole-tops etc.