Identification of shoulderboard set....Police, Fire?

[Frank Davis]

I have a set of shoulderboards that I cannot identify....I think they are Fire Protection Police, but these boards are black in the center, not dark brown...any help with this?....Thanks in advance.

[Gunny Hartmann]

Hauptwachtmeister Feuerlöschpolizei....

[Frank Davis]

The only Hauptwachtmeister Feuerlöschpolizei boards I can find are brown, not black like mine....did they change color at some time (period, rank?)....also, mine has the bar across the shoulder seam?....Thanks

[Gunny Hartmann]

No real expert Frank but all the ones i have seen are black, was it the Feuerschutzpolizei that were brown?...

[Frank Davis]

Got me?......The folks I have been talking too and the photos and descriptions all point to a dark brown.......I thought mine fit this until I looked in the sunlight , definitely black.....I also have police brown boards, not the same color.....thanks for your input, Frank.

[Gunny Hartmann]

Sorry i couldn't help further Frank, i cant find any with the bar across the seam like yours. The Feuerlöschpolizei ones are the closest i can find!..

[ObKrieger]

It's hauptwachtmeister feuerschutzpolizei.

[Frank Davis]

Thank You Gunny...............Frank

[HPL2008]

The only Hauptwachtmeister Feuerlöschpolizei boards I can find are brown, not black like mine....did they change color at some time (period, rank?)....also, mine has the bar across the shoulder seam?

No real expert Frank but all the ones i have seen are black, was it the Feuerschutzpolizei that were brown?...

Sorry i couldn't help further Frank, i cant find any with the bar across the seam like yours. The Feuerlöschpolizei ones are the closest i can find!

The confusion is understandable; but I'll try to clear it up. Bear with me, as this is all a bit complicated.

Right... Let's start with the terminology:

Feuerlöschpolizei [Firefighting Police], a term created in 1936, did not refer to an indiviual service, but was simply the collective designation for the entirety of the Berufsfeuerwehren [Professional Fire Brigades] and the Freiwillige Feuerwehren [Volunteer Fire Brigades].

Established as a new special branch of the police in late 1939, the Feuerschutzpolizei [Fire Protection Police] was formed from the Berufsfeuerwehren, which ceased to exist as such. [Some Berufsfeuerwehren of smaller cities were not taken into the FSP, but re-designated/re-organized into Freiwillige Feuerwehren].
The Feuerschutzpolizei was a regular branch of the Order Police, while the Freiwillige Feuerwehren had the status of a Technische Hilfspolizei [Technical Auxiliary Police]. The other two services with that status were the Technische Nothilfe (since 1936) and the Luftschutzpolizei (since 1942).


Now for the shoulder board color. I won't go through all ranks; let us just focus on the specific "NCO" rank group that is of interest here:

• 1st design: Carmine underlay, carmine center cords, aluminum outer cords with carmine flecking, no traverse cord at the bottom (Worn by the BFW and the FFW since 1936)
• 2nd design: Carmine underlay, black center cords, aluminum outer cords with black flecking, no traverse cord at the bottom (Worn by the FSP since 1939 and the FFW since January 1940)
• 3rd design: Carmine underlay, black center cords, aluminum outer cords with black flecking including a traverse outer cord at the bottom (Worn by the FSP since 1941 and by the FFW since 1943)
• 4th design: Carmine underlay, dark brown center cords, aluminum outer cords with dark brown flecking, including a traverse outer cord at the bottom (Worn by the FSP from 1942 to 1945 and the FFW from 1944 to 1945) (The colored underlay was discontinued for newly-manufactured boards in 1944, but boards with the underlay could be worn out indefinitely.)

As for the traverse cord at the bottom end:

This was introduced for the police ranks of Oberwachtmeister through Hauptwachtmeister with a 1941 rank insignia revision and adopted by the Feuerwehren in 1943, when the Order Police's rank designations were fully adopted. Prior to this, the services had shared the same basic shoulder board design, but rank designations were different.


As for the color changes to the center cords and flecking:

With an order of 2 September 1942, the entire Order Police (except for the Water Protection Police) adopted standardized dark brown colors, cuffs and shoulder board cords. Prior to this, they had been dark brown for the Schutzpolizei and Verkehrspolizei, medium brown for the Gendarmerie and black for the Feuerschutzpolizei. The Feuerwehren initially kept their black shoulder board cords, but made the changeover to dark brown together with the Technische Nothilfe in 1944.


So the shoulder boards seen here are for:

A Hauptwachtmeister of either the Feuerschutzpolizei (1941 - 1942) or of the Freiwillige Feuerwehr (1943 - 1944).

(If the shoulder boards did not have the traverse cord at the bottom, they would be for a Hauptwachtmeister of the Feuerschutzpolizei (1939 - 1941) or a Haupttruppmann of the Freiwillige Feuerwehr (1940 - 1943).


PS: Just for the sake of completeness: Carmine cords and flecking were retained for the shoulder boards of the Werkfeuerwehren [Factory Fire Brigades]. The Pflichtfeuerwehren [Obligatory Fire Brigades] wore the same shoulder boards as the Freiwillige Feuerwehren.

[Gunny Hartmann]

Cheers for the info, that cleared it up!....