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Triangle patch

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  1. #1

    Default Triangle patch

    ………………………………………

    Triangle patchTriangle patch

    Every so now and then the shown patch pops up at dealer’s websites and forums and such. But what is it?
    For many years it was said to be for customs females. On the other hand serious dealers claimed it in the last years to be private forestry!

    It is sewn onto all kinds of headgear, most often being the so-called M43 type of headdress.

    Triangle patch Triangle patch

    The mayor problem however is:
    in NO Third Reich regulation or announcement for customs, nor forestry this patch ever was being mentioned
    (some of the best customs and forestry experts were contacted about this matter). So, where does this “knowledge” come from.
    Making just rough calculations?
    One cannot be sure about what this patch really is/was until some person brings evidence by means of an actual publication or
    regulation or whatever. So, true evidence it should be. Until then the claims are just twaddle, nonsense and bla-bla!

    The patch has no indications whatsoever saying it is forestry. This organization did not use the saw-tooth edge.
    The leaves are said to be oakleaves, but they are not. There are indications the patch to be customs, as with many insignia
    the saw-tooth edge was a fact (all types of collar-patches, the actual and true customs Edelweiss, and for example the speciality
    patch for customs pilots. Even in most designs the saw-tooth is included. See some added samples of designs).
    The leaves are the Acanthus, a leaf typical for customs as well.


    Triangle patch design customs pilots Triangle patch actual patch

    Triangle patch design for the Edelweiss. Look at the saw-tooth and Acanthus-leaves

    Triangle patch actual manufactured Edelweiss as proof

    Triangle patch Edelweiss design, devoid of the customs characteristics: saw-tooth and Acanthus

    For many years I consider myself a person having a slight knowledge of German uniforms and insignia and above all its development.
    I cannot understand the nonsense the patch to be forestry. Those claiming this have no idea about the “how and what” of these matters!

    Myself: I have ideas what the patch could be (not forestry in no way) and for many years it is my opinion the patch was planned one day
    for the customs-organization. I explain:
    In 1942 plans apparently existed to replace the customs cuff-title. A special insignia was noted (Schaffung eines besonderen Abzeichens),
    however not saying how it did look
    .
    Knowing procedures the patch even may have been manufactured, as manufacturers were eager to “invent” insignia in hope their product
    was chosen to be the final form (this I learned from correspondence about the customs Edelweiss and special pilots patch). Finally it was
    or must have been denied to be introduced (die Schaffung fallen gelassen worden).
    The war will have been a spoil-part (die Beibehaltung des Ärmelstreifens nur für die Dauer des Krieges bis auf weiteres gestattet wurde).

    Could it be the shown patch was the plan to replace the cuff-title and so to be worn by males, as well as females?
    This is just a wild, wild guess. Or could it indeed have been a patch to be worn with headgear like the so-called M43?
    Who knows. As mentioned before only true and stated evidence can give us a solution!! It will keep, as they say!

    The matter is open for discussion, but remind we are not served with “I have heard” or “I have seen”.
    There must be produced some actual foundation by means of a publication or documentation. The subject has
    been discussed many times before at various forums. Nobody ever came with a stated document and/or clue!
    I know it is a quite difficult question, but who knows?
    Do save us from more twaddle and bla-bla, please!
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 10-20-2018 at 08:28 AM.

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  3. #2

    Default

    Thanks, as always, for your efforts, Wim.

    The forestry theory has always been absurd; from the design it is indeed clear that the patch - whatever its exact purpose was - is Zoll-related.

    I would like to throw another theory in the ring, knowing full well that it, too, is just wild speculation.

    The triangular shape is rather unusual for Third Reich-era uniform insignia, but one other triangular state service patch comes to mind: The collar patches worn on the service dress and greatcoat of female prison personnel (see below).

    This got me thinking: Given the similiar shape and the fact that this patch has a sawtooth edge like the Zoll collar patches, could this be a (projected/unissued) collar patch for female customs auxiliaries?


    Triangle patch

  4. #3

    Default

    I know about this patch as shown in the regulation: Dienstbekleidungsvorschrift der Reichsjustizverwaltung
    from June 3, 1942. These triangles do have a cord edge, but no saw-tooth edge. Just a cord.
    Nor do they have leaves of any kind, but just rosettes and chevrons (description pp. 22 and 23).

    By the way: the green for the collar-patches for justice is quite another color as the typical green for customs, if I remember well.
    Furthermore the type of patch-material woven is not meant to be for collar-patches at all, but typical for the arm or headgear!
    Only occasionally collar patches were made according to the so-called "Bandstuhlverfahren".
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 10-20-2018 at 08:29 AM.

  5. #4

    Default

    I added some designs for the customs pilots patch and Edelweiss too post 1, which might be of great interest
    for those with real interest in the development of insignia!
    Beware if in a few years such patches pop up!

    The Edelweiss designs are not ever shown before.
    They are not even shown at the Zollgrenzschutz-website!

  6. #5

    Default

    Very interesting essay on this mystery patch Wim.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote by Anderson View Post
    Very interesting essay on this mystery patch Wim.
    Thanks! I like to give so now and then nice information for the real interested. Due to my
    files I am able to. Some of my closest friends do own the same information. I think it is
    of use also to mention my articles about customs pilots and the Edelweiss as being published
    in the US-magazine "Military Advisor". Some were published many, many years ago (over
    25 years ago with some occasions). Many took over my information, occasionally as if it
    was theirs (not even asking about).

    1991: Military Advisor: Pilots of the Customs Border Security, 1941-1945;
    1992: Militaria (Germany): Zollflieger des Zollgrenzschutzes, 1941-1945;
    1992: Miltaria (Germany): Das Zollgrenzschutz-Edelweissabzeichen;
    1996: Military Advisor: Customs Border Security Edelweiss.

    Triangle patch Triangle patch

    Triangle patch

    Of great interest might be, due to information about the development:
    1997: Military Advisor: Customs Car Flags (1939-1945)
    1998: Militaria (Germany): Zollflaggen an Kraftwagen (1939-1945).

    I wrote also other articles about customs, as for example the aiguillette, brocade and buckle
    and arm patches for foreigners, serving within customs. Customs always has been one of my
    favorite organizations.

  8. #7

    Default

    As i have already discussed this with Wilhelm this patch also pops up so now and then.
    Again no information of regulations or pictures known at this moment.


    Triangle patchTriangle patch

    The reproduction insignia for the Zollflieger already hit the market some years ago, but i have seen only one.
    I only don't recall where but it was cheap.

    Triangle patch

  9. #8

    Default

    Thanks ZGS Collector. I was aware of this triangle also and you said what it is: NOT known actually.
    Just a lot of guessing.
    It was also shown at WAF by an French collector...…
    When I see you again, we will discuss these matters.

    It is a pity that swindlers reproduce this great pilots insignia. I never showed the reverse from the
    original insignia in none of my articles. So it is easy to identify the crap! There is no need to see the
    reverse from the one shown with post 7. The structure is a "give away"!!
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 10-24-2018 at 08:55 PM.

  10. #9

    Default

    Clever idea not to show the reverse side Wim. Keep the fakers guessing.

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