Paramilitary * 2

**Guido** · 05-05-2011, 12:24 PM

Hello Alex and All!

I still believe the buckles are fantasy, but it seems that the motif itself has a real pattern! A good collector friend gave me the essential hint. The symbol in question was used at Dr. Otto Straßer's "Schwarze Front". Straßer was a left wing National Socialist and he left the NSDAP in 1930. Perhaps the swastika is facing to the wrong direction due to the left political disposition of this movement? (Dan mentioned this possibility already before.)

Further we know a "Schwarze Front" buckle without swastika in an advertisement.

Hope this is some further brain feed for all members and perhaps we will hear more ideas about this interesting field.

Best,
Guido

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 05-05-2011 12:24 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Buckle1** · 05-05-2011, 01:51 PM

Guido, et al,

Let me try to get this in perspective-you say thet this pattern buckle as it exists on the two buckles that started thsi thread are fantasy. yet here you show a German paper w/an ad showing both a picture of the exact pattern appearing on the buckle (s) in question as well a an obviously original buckle with a Ges. Gosh. (sp) mark sans the backward swastika. First I would like to know if anyone has ever seen the buckle pictured and secondly to ask why could there not have been this buckle produced with the backward swastika added? I think we may have jumped to too quick a decision on these buckles only based on the fact that no one has seen them before even though we all seemed to agree that the boxes and the solder points looked to be correct and original. Maybe I am missisng something here but with this paper that you have shown it certainly opens this thread up for further discussion.

Regards to all,
Bill

Guido, a great research effort on your part. Many thankjs.

**davejb** · 05-05-2011, 02:48 PM

This has turned into an interesting topic, but i have a question, if these type buckles are real, why are there different motifs, ie the sword and hammer, in the paper there appears the motif in question with the sword point and the hammer facing upwards which in heraldic terms would be the norm as this implies strength and victory, yet with the advertisement for the buckle they face downwards, i cant think why any manufacturer would produce two types of the same motif but with obvious differences which contradict their meaning, surely they should be a uniform design if produced by the same factory

**Buckle1** · 05-05-2011, 04:59 PM

Yes, I hear what you are saying but that still does not address the issue of the buckle shown in the paper. It obviously exists since it shows a Ges. Gesh -patent pending. As far as the upper photo it is just upside down. If you turn that image up-side down it is the same as on the buckle on the first two buckles shown. I hope this makes sense. In any event I think the fact the Guido was able to locate the paper showing this buckle was nothing short of amazing and it certainly opens the door for further discussions.

Bill

**davejb** · 05-05-2011, 07:02 PM

Bill, im sorry to contradict your observations but the images are not the same ,whatever way you turn it they are different, one has the sword point and the hammer head facing each other and upwards then the point and handle are seen facing each other, what is the correct configuration , the one in the paper or the advert, the first or second picture ie silver or gold, this is getting confusing

**alexhip** · 05-05-2011, 08:19 PM

Guido Hello and Thank You very much for Your input, well done.
A very promising version. Here are some images of Dr. Otto Straßer after He is back to Germany on 1955.
Downwards position and no swastika for " some reasons ".

Alex.

btw, He's gone on 1974 in Munich

**davejb** · 05-05-2011, 08:36 PM

Bill take what i said before, throw it out the window and stamp on it, cant tell my head from my rear, id blame it on the glasses but its my brain, i hate anagrams as well, cheers dave

**David North** · 05-07-2011, 04:41 PM

I hope that this most interesting discussion continues and hopefully in the near future, Alex may have something more to add.

Regards,

David

**alexhip** · 12-11-2011, 10:47 AM

by David North

I hope that this most interesting discussion continues and hopefully in the near future, Alex may have something more to add.

Regards,

David

David Hello
You were right and Thanks for the path

The Ancestor

Alex.

**Buckle1** · 12-11-2011, 05:21 PM

The first one of these that I can remember seeing belonged to Marc V. I was sort of interested in it when it was available but the rondel was applied upside down. While I have seen this before, on Communist buckles and early Bavarian police I was still leary of the buckle. Perhaps Marc could chime in on this if he reads it. With that said I have to agree that it is a fantasy piece. Kind of makes one wonder however, why there are not more of them around.

Bill