Hi Horst, I am inclined to follow your suggestion re the Armistice Sabre. I have a similar sword with a shagreen grip but with a brass patterned guard, langet and backstrap. Mine is a single fullered curved blade. If my memory serves me Angolia states that the Armistice sabre persee should have a plastic grip but that similar patterns with the shagreen grip cover were produced pre 1918. The tang plug "looks" to have had two small spanner holes to facilitate its removal? If this is so, then I would suggest that the sabre has been striped down in the past and on its reassembly, the internal nut holding the upper end of the guard has not been fastened tight enough to pull the shoulders of the blade hard against the underside of the quilon or crossguard thus leaving the gap at the foot of the backstrap????? My guess is that the leather washer at the top of the ricasso is possibly wedged between the blade shoulder and the base of the guard. Obviously, this is all suppersition as I have not handled the sword.
I would suggest that it is possibly and export model, possibly South America, that looks like an Armistice sabre. The scabbard looks as though the throat has been heavily rough filed to accommodate the langet and the throat shape looks all wrong for a German weapon???? I would therefore wonder if the scabbard and sword are a mismatch?
Hi Fred, I would be very interested to hear your opinions on my suggestions? In any event, and iteresting item!
Hi Horst, I am inclined to follow your suggestion re the Armistice Sabre. I have a similar sword with a shagreen grip but with a brass patterned guard, langet and backstrap. Mine is a single fullered curved blade. If my memory serves me Angolia states that the Armistice sabre persee should have a plastic grip but that similar patterns with the shagreen grip cover were produced pre 1918. The tang plug "looks" to have had two small spanner holes to facilitate its removal? If this is so, then I would suggest that the sabre has been striped down in the past and on its reassembly, the internal nut holding the upper end of the guard has not been fastened tight enough to pull the shoulders of the blade hard against the underside of the quilon or crossguard thus leaving the gap at the foot of the backstrap????? My guess is that the leather washer at the top of the ricasso is possibly wedged between the blade shoulder and the base of the guard. Obviously, this is all suppersition as I have not handled the sword.
I would suggest that it is possibly and export model, possibly South America, that looks like an Armistice sabre. The scabbard looks as though the throat has been heavily rough filed to accommodate the langet and the throat shape looks all wrong for a German weapon???? I would therefore wonder if the scabbard and sword are a mismatch?
Hi Fred, I would be very interested to hear your opinions on my suggestions? In any event, and iteresting item!
Cheers Michael R
Hello Michael,
Once again we have another puzzle. Looking at the blade and scabbard-mouthpiece I would say that they are of the type seen with the IOD89, and the mouthpiece roughly ground down to accommodate the langets of the "P" guard knuckle bow. The langets themselves possibly being a later addition to the knucklebow. With the complete hilt assembly itself not typical of the usual German Depot standards for rebuilding arms. "In hand" I would be looking for any and all kinds of other types of markings to see if they might help. With all that said, the South American approach was a very interesting one that had not occurred to me - because it is/was a very common theme with Mexican swords, and to a smaller extent one other nation that comes to mind.
Yes Fred, you beat me once again!! It must be getting a bit boring for you having to point things out to me but keep them coming. I see exactly what you mean about the apparently applied langets and am it total agreement -- added? I have a sword blade lurking in the garage which I will dig out and send you a picture tomorrow. Unfortunately it does not have a hilt but it gives a pretty good idea of how close the blades followed German patterns.
Very sorry to see and read about the atrocity at the Florida school. My thoughts are with the casualties, pupils, relatives and all the good guys. Why are there so many screwed up people in this world???????????????????????????????
Hi Vadi and Fred, Further to my last post, I have photographed a pair of blades for comparison and I appreciate that they are both single fullered and curved. However, the point I am making is that they are more or less identical to each other but literally oceans apart. The plain blade is standard German with makers logo whilst the etched blade bears the stamp "Solingen" only on the obverse recasso and "Esteban Botta Motevideo" on the reverse. The importer I presume. Whilst this does not prove that our sword is or indeed is not an export item, it does go some way to supporting the possibility of it being of very Germanic appearance but not German usage? I forgot to ask, are there any stampings on the ricasso that may help in its origin and or country of use?? I am fairly certain that I have handled similar weapons of German manufacture but bearing South American state insignia.
I hope hope that I have not deviated too far from the original request on this thread??
.
by Michael Ryan
Bookmarks