SS Ehrendegen PMD Dachau

**Larry C** · 01-16-2016, 01:15 AM

Great to bring a Face or location to a desirably made SS Degen forge

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**Espenlaub Militaria** · 01-16-2016 01:15 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**CARL** · 01-16-2016, 01:18 AM

It must be of great interest for certain collectors of such material Larry yes...and pleases me that some folk do actually care enough to look into things beyond having a shiny memento in their display case

**matty01** · 01-16-2016, 01:36 AM

Very very interesting.

This site looks to be where my green dot is or where I quoted the two fella's had found on another forum to be right.

How do people know different information to the people that are based there? interesting anyway.

**CARL** · 01-16-2016, 01:52 AM

If, as one could assume, a structure was built with similar dimensions on the exact same spot, it could easily be identified as period should somebody not have access to the image shown above, i.e. the demolished area. Today, structures are present at the location - these can be identified through Google Maps.

**stingray** · 01-16-2016, 03:32 AM

Good job guys, I wish I could help in this very interesting discussion

**d'alquen** · 01-16-2016, 04:17 AM

After checking Google I don't think there is any evidence of a contemporary structure having been being built on the site of the smithy.

**matty01** · 01-16-2016, 11:26 AM

The building which looks like a giant J & C from the air looks original. This is where the war crimes investigations were held.

The big grey building at the top is also original. The railway line seems to have ran just this side of this building then exited again out from the north.

There are quite a few original structures remaining including a big water tower which is just out of the picture.

The section of railway in line with the watertower is where the infamous Buchenwald death train was parked when the camp was liberated. Ive read quite a few accounts of soldiers squeezing between the gate and the train as they entered through the SW railroad gate. The main gate was almost adjacent and provided easy access however they entered through the railroad gate (where the train was partially through) in case it was booby-trapped.
There is a picture of this SW arched gate earlier in the thread, there are two soldiers guarding it.
The gatehouse building is still there so most likely would have had a barrier that lifted up.
There is also a section of Railway there (about 15 yards) which has been left as a memorial.

Once the US 45th had entered through the SW corner, they passed the 'death train' and continued to walk through the SS area clearing all the buildings and factory's on the way. There are reports of pockets of light resistance (despite the white flags upon entry), there was also allot of shooting coming from the prison camp by the SS trying to keep the inmates 'under control'.

Meanwhile the 42nd were anxiously taking surrender of the camp at the main south gate. They could hear the gunfire from the US 45th from the other side of the camp. They could also hear the SS guards shooting at prisoners which they wrongly thought was being aimed at them.

hope that's of interest,

Matty

**Frogprince** · 01-21-2016, 09:46 PM

I very much appreciate the photos and information that have been posted to add to my own data base.

Some additional information to add to the data base here - from at least one known example (1938) of a Birthday sword it has Solingen markings. With Himmler sending correspondence to Müller in May of 1939 regarding receiving the first work from Müller at the Reich-teaching-forge at Dachau being well pleased with the workmanship. Also apologizing for not visiting the forge in his last visit to Dachau. Saying that for his next trip if he has time he will try to visit the workshop, and that he has transmitted a letter from Müller to SS-Groupleader Pohl.

For the swords themselves - two examples of very late in November of 1939 and 1940 Birthday swords, the first without and the later with a “PMD” marking that appear to provide a relative starting point for the use of the “PMD” marking. With the end of making them in January 1942 via the blade marking (but more likely IMO manufactured in 1941 in anticipation of the presentation of the sword).

Photos of Müller at work in his forge with an apprentice are in Manfred Sachse’s book Damascus Steel with three of the apprentices known by name and specialty (1) grinder (1) damascener, and (1) hardener. With Müller staying at Dachau until mid 1946 before setting up another forge elsewhere. Sachse reporting that Müller was warned from Berlin to put more effort in his work (perhaps this was a part of his Leave of Absence episode(?). With Saches also mentioning that those in Solingen were not so forgiving with two aspects of Müller’s choices. The first being the move to Dachau, and the other that he had a rival Karl Wester imprisoned. Something that required the combined efforts of many individuals from Solingen to overturn, freeing Wester. Which as an aside, upon reading made me think of the tone of the 1939 letter from Müller to Pohl that I mentioned earlier. With Best Regards to All, Fred

**CARL** · 01-21-2016, 09:59 PM

by d'alquen

After checking Google I don't think there is any evidence of a contemporary structure having been being built on the site of the smithy.

And herein lies the identification issue...as museum staff believe the location to be slightly to the left of your indicator, i.e. the row of structures to the left. The arrow tip (attachment shown earlier and kindly supplied by KZ-Gedenkstätte-Dachau staff) marks a structure to the left of the one marked by Matty earlier in the thread. Fact is, nothing of the original forge remains on the site anyway...most importantly, the location has at last been identified for those with an interest in the work and history of the site.