Sword ID help

[Heathen]

Hello,
I'm doing a bit of web research for the garrison museum, and I've been unable to find out so far what this sword is in order to get an idea of its value. The donator thought it was a Prussian army sword, but neither the museum director nor I agree. I could be totally in the wrong time period with this thread, but the portepee is the same design as WWII German naval ones, only the threads on this are black. There is no makers' mark on the blade. Letters engraved on the scabbard are "AR", they don't show well in the picture. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

[Eric Zentner]

Hi Heathen welcome to the forum It has the look of a bavarian army sword from WW1 that I have seen once. I have no idea on the portepee.

Eric

[Heathen]

Thanks, I will look into that.

[gerrit]

This "degen" is of a very high quality.
This will be a Generals Degen or a gift to a high ranking Officers in service of one of the German Nobility prob. around 1900.

compare it with this kind of degen:
https://www.weitze.net/detail/89/Pre...0__152189.html

or the later Generals degen for luftwaffe:
Wittmann Militaria #33293C Luftwaffe General's Degen by Carl Eickhorn

Cheers,
Ger

[stuka f]

Very difficult to identify.
These kind of parade swords were ment to be wore by civilians as well, thise can go from a academician, over a mayor.
In Belgium even a teacher was in title to wear one (along with a uniform!) on special occasions.
Did you try the SFI ?
Sword Forum International - The Front Page
cheers
|<

[Heathen]

Thanks for your replies. Even if its exact identity can't be nailed down, at least I have a better idea of its age! The scabbard looks identical to that of the Luftwaffe sword, actually, so I'm leaning more towards WWII age. I'll try cross-posting on the SFI.

[Frogprince]

This looks to be the “hochfein ziselierter Montur” (special/fancy embellished version) of the Prussian Railway Officials sword, which is in the form of the old model Prussian Infantry Officer's Degen (sword), most likely from the turn of the century (circa 1900). FP

[Billy G]

I agree with the time period proposed, early 1900's but am not sure it's Preußen Railway since it doesn't seem to have the winged raiway wheel that is so often associated with this servic although it would surprise me if Frogprince was incorrect. I was thinking along the lines of a Preußen court degen. Definitely not Bayern IMHO.

[Frogprince]

Billy, What can I say? I can recheck, but the sword looked like a one to one match for a period line drawing, also listing a more standard "plain jane" sword that was a dress version of the conventional old Prussian IOD. With the Prussian court swords having an eagle motif, and some other distinct types added to the mix. And then the fun begins. Because we see that some civil organizations also used copies of the old IOD.

PS: Sabers with cast in place motifs were made for the major branches of the Army. But the much higher grade swords made in much smaller quantities very often used high grade appliqués in lieu of - to accomplish the same end without all of that extra tooling. My point being that it was probably not very cost effective to make quantities of highly specialized official's swords beyond what they already going for them with the more neutral motifs. Best Regards, Fred

[goodbuys]

Listed as a Prussian Civil Service Sword Similar to The early model Prussian Infantry Officer's Sword Except it has a smaller and lighter guard. See the book SWORDS OF GERMANY 1900/1945 BY ANGOLIA page # 397.