What Kind of sword is this? Yea I know its German WWII.

**LMG 1** · 09-02-2010, 09:29 PM

Go to the top where it says private messages and click on send new message, his user name is 'swordfish' if that does not work im sure a moderator will help.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-02-2010 09:29 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Rommel1942** · 09-02-2010, 09:32 PM

other than the SS runes a beautiful sword.

**Swordfish** · 09-02-2010, 10:28 PM

As was mentioned, it's an Army officer/NCO pattern dress saber.

That's an interesting piece. It's clearly a Krebs Nr 3 pattern saber (I believe). It appears to be devoid of a MM and has the Herm Rath dist. marking we periodically see. What's interesting is that we sometimes see the Rath marking on various Police degens, often the type with the SS proofing.

What I imagine somebody did, was seeing the Rath dist. marking, put 2 and 2 together with respect to the Rath marked SS proofed, Police degens, and assumed they could embellish this Kreb Nr 3 to increase value. He probably thought that the less astoot saber collector, might be fooled into believing the SS proofing is good, because of the Rath dist. marking.

That's my take on it. Either way, this piece did not roll off the Krebs floor with the sigrunes stamping, nor did it walk out of the Rath dist. center with the sigrunes stamping. That was done post war, obviously by a collector. I've seen fake sigrunes stampings on a number of period pieces over the years, and alot seem to have been done during the 1970s.

I must say though, however did the post-war stamping of the sigrunes diamond, did a good job. Usually the phony stampings are not done as cleanly.

Tom

**LMG 1** · 09-02-2010, 10:41 PM

How much do u think the sigrunes stamping has devalued this sword?

**Swordfish** · 09-02-2010, 11:07 PM

Luke,

Value wise? It's tough to say. The condition of the sword is so-so. Certainly not mint or excellent, yet not horrible either..it's in between- probably in the "good - " range. As such, we first would have to valuate the saber based on it's condition and scarcity. From there, we could try to surmize how much the post-war embellishment devalues the piece. It's really tough to say. But, if it were me, and if I were interested in this piece or another piece with the identical phony stamping, I would subtract $55-$75 off the top.

These types of embellishments can really hurt a piece. For example, lets say this marking was found on a mint conditioned Eickhorn Nr. 1716 "aok leaf" langeted example. The pattern being scarce, and the condition being mint, would ordinarily command a top dollar. With this stamping, alot of collectors who are interested in choice pieces would most likely refuse to consider purchasing the piece. So it can be susbstantial. It can mean the difference between a sale and no sale, thus forcing the owner/seller to drop the price significantly until the piece moves.

So, me, if I were interested in buying this Krebs with this stamp, as I said, I would require the seller to knock off $50-$75 or I wouldn't be interested. Everyone is different and perhaps some collectors wouldn't care. That said, they will always have the same problem when the time comes to sell. That phony stamping will always be the sticking point with potential buyers...unless of course someone like Pawel buys it to resell and screw some unsuspecting collector into believing the piece is a Waffen-SS officer saber.

Tom

**LMG 1** · 09-02-2010, 11:30 PM

Yeah i am sure Pawel would say that and a new collector might make an exspensive mistake

anyway still an intresting sword and i am sure many collectors would like
it in their collection,its nice to have the Rath center mark on the blade and not just the runes.
theres a lot to learn in this particular collecting field!
very intresting thread

**Swordfish** · 09-02-2010, 11:37 PM

Luke,
You're right my friend. It's an interesting piece. Infact I chose to save the photos of this piece for future reference. I've never come accross a period Herm Rath distributer marked piece, with this post war embellishment. It will be interesting to see if any other patterns come up with similiar characteristics, which are marked with the phony runes diamond.

If that SS proof were shown to be period applied, it would change the saber collecting landscape. It would be an earthmoving discovery.

Tom

**LMG 1** · 09-02-2010, 11:50 PM

Tom

Mabye u should try and aquire it to your amazing collection of sabers

**ncblksmth1** · 09-03-2010, 05:16 AM

Gents I have a couple of questions about these markings. Take a look at the new photos posted and let me know do the letters look the same depth and are the raised edges the same?