1st Oktober Sudetenland Medal for opinions please

[big ned]

Hi Scott,

I'm not a collector of these flower medals, but have taken a look at the one above and compared it to others. As far as I'm concerned, the medal is good, as is the case.

The only real problem I have with it is as already mentioned, the ribbon being rather narrow making me think it's possibly a later repro, and the suspension pin which looks to me as it might be a modern piece made for a single medal ribbon bar. The appearance of both the minty medal and case in the photo's may be due to the DSLR camera settings (exposure/contrast/fine/superfine) or perhaps manipulation of the pic's by photo shop or whatever other enhancing apps that are all over the place these days.

Another point regarding the size of the suspension ring is spurious as far as I'm concerned, different makers used different sizes, just look at other medals like EK II's, SS Long Service Medals, Heer Long Service Medals etc., etc., they come in various different sizes and types, whether soldered or unsoldered as well.

This of course is just my opinion, and to be fair to the others, I agree there are plenty more less contentious ones for sale out there to choose from.

Regards, Ned.

[avenger]

Thanks guys for the replies. I really appreciate all your time, and expertise. You're good friends to do all this for us who are learning.

It's unfortunate that there's controversy on this one. I was really excited about it till I noticed the pin attachment which nobody has liked thus far. The devil's in the details on these items.

[avenger]

I've debated on posting these or not. I'm ashamed to say by the time I had opinions on this from the kind folks here, I had already bought it and the seller was not going to work with me at that point. Return postage to Europe would eat most of what I'd get back, so I'll probably just hold on to it. Eagerness from a long hunt/wait got the best of me I'm afraid. But, I figure I'm among friends here, so here's this medal in hand anyway. Perhaps another like it will pop up and someone will see this thread.

The only part of this I feel moderately good about is the case. The medal itself is lighter than I expected it would be and seems more like the weight of aluminum than a brass alloy. It is not magnetic, though the pin is, as is the metal on the case. The ribbon and case exhibit no blacklight issues for what that's worth. And, I think everyone has already delivered the verdict on the pin.

I wouldn't mind cutting the pin off if the ribbon were okay, and at least the set would be original at that point assuming the rest is good. The ribbon has been sewn in spots with black thread at the corners along the top and bottom edges, to hold its form. If the case is at least good, there are nice medals I've seen out there that are missing theirs, so it could be a silver lining there. Cases in this condition don't seem common.

[bigmacglenn]

It's a nice set, and you can always remove the reverse hardware...
cheers, Glenn

[avenger]

Hi Glenn! You're right, I think I'm more annoyed at myself for not paying better attention and for letting myself get into a position where I was under pressure to make a deal. I'll certainly think back on this one next time I'm in a similar situation so I don't find out the details on an item after money has traded hands.

I did get more feedback on the set at some other forums with the photos I posted here yesterday. Everyone is telling me the same thing, that the pin is wrong, but the rest is okay. Evidently the ribbon colors and widths vary from maker to maker, though I think everyone would agree there is a standard look for these which mine does not share. The salmon color isn't as attractive as the blood red, and I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would pick it for production. Perhaps it at one time was blood red, and some material they used faded over time. The medal is absolutely spotless though, and the case is very clean. So, it has some good features too, and like you said I can remove the pin. Though, I'm kind of leaning towards leaving it after some thought. I don't know when it was added, and it's kind of part of its history now.

[big ned]

Perhaps the ribbon is silk? They were often a more watered down colour than the synthetic types. I've sent you a PM regarding how to test it Scott.

Regards, Ned.

[bigmacglenn]

Another option would be to replace the Ribbon entirely...Original Ribbons are easily obtained for these...
Overall an attractive set for display...
Trust me when I say that I've made my share of buying-mistakes over the years, and every now and then I still screw up, but that's how we learn, friend...
cheers, Glenn

[avenger]

I hadn't thought about silk Ned. You make a good point though.

I actually did do a burn test on thread removed from the cut edge at the top of the ribbon, and the black thread they used to sew the pin on last night. The ribbon material thread burned leaving black ash like soot, though I didn't try removing the flame, nor did I get much of a smell from it. I'll try again tonight though. There's lots of loose thread under where they folded the ribbon in. The black thread they sewed the pin on with burned to a light gray ash. I don't think either material are synthetics.

[big ned]

The black ash is a good sign as that's how silk burns. The other thread is really immaterial as I think most are agreed the pin fitting is a lot later, it's probably plain old cotton sewing thread.

Regards, Ned.

[avenger]

I did one more burn test on a strand of the ribbon. It caught flame and burned down to dark gray/black ash. I wonder if it's actually rayon, or perhaps a silk blend with another material.

Ian Hulley over at WAF had this to say:

The only thing I can say is that all the pinkish ones I've seen have been properly mounted and the ribbon has the 'watermark' effect ... now whether that's more apparent because of the fading or that the ribbon has a higher silk content and therefore doesn't hold the dye as well .....

I found out a bit more on these ribbons. Others have shown me examples that are also the rose color instead of red. In these cases they had examples that had not been stored in a case that were still dark red, and one that was in a case all it's "life" that had turned the rose color like mine is. I don't recall seeing this on EK2 or Eastern Front medals, so perhaps it's unique to the flower medals...