Anyone know what this badge is

[Valter]

Thank you, Ned, I have to change my opinion after your explanation! My doubts were based on the fact I've never seen these badges... We all learn here!

[big ned]

Valter,

It's a pleasure old son!! Nice to know that ones input is appreciated by a new member!.

Nice to see you here,

Greetz, Ned.

[panzer1]

Hi,just to let everyone know i have now bought the badge paid £80 and i was happy and so was the guy selling.Thanks For all the opinions and advice ....Cheers Rob

[Luther]

Hello All,

This badge has been showing up as of late.

One is for sale in Germany, another in Spain, plus one here in the US - on ePier.com of all places! ePier.com CAVEAT EMPTOR!!

All of the Heeres Abnahme badges I've seen are numbered on the reverse with a manufacturer's mark - Tweer & Turck, Ludenscheid. All have a brass-colored pin with the point oriented to the left (looking at badge from behind). The shape is horizontally oblong and approximately 1.75" in width x 1" in height. The badges I've seen run the gamit of condition, from ground-dug to almost mint.

All are low numbered - less than 300.

Photos of what I've found are attached.

At this point this badge is an unknown quantity at this time. When encountering such an item use discretion. One has to rely solely upon their experience, wits and collector's intuition.

At this point, it may or may not be authentic.

The Heeres Abnahme badges may very well be of the same ilk as the Luftwaffe Peenemunde-West V1 Testing Facility/Airfield Employee Badges that suddenly appeared about a year or two ago (do a Google search and you'll eventually find one). These Peenemunde-West employee badges are complete fantasy pieces with aging that makes them appear well-used and authentic.

I can tell you that the Heeres Abnahme badge is not mentioned, photographed or covered in any militaria reference books that I know. Nor is there any known photographic evidence of it being worn.

What is it worth? At this point, whatever the market will bear; there is no established market pricing for this badge.

Best Regards,

Luther
Third.Reich.Researcher

[Luther]

Hello All,

Everything that big ned states is correct, but does not constitute de facto evidence that this badge is real. Multiple sources have been quoting this same information as "evidence" that the badge is authentic. Existence of the Heereswaffenamt and the Heeres Abnahme does not constitute evidence that a Acceptance Inspector's badge was produced nor that the currently illustrated examples are real.

Until more definitive proof is found, all examples of this badge are an "unknown quantity."

As I've stated, it has shown up in very small numbers as of late at various militaria dealers throughout the world.

The Heeres Abnahme badge is not illustrated, mentioned or covered in any reference books of which I am aware. "Experienced" dealers are stating it is an "unkown" badge.

There is precendent of a previously unknown badge suddenly appearing on the market, only to be eventually condemned as fakes.

At this point, it can not be stated with an absolute degree of certainty as to whether it is authentic or a fantasy piece.

Best Regards,

Luther
Third.Reich.Researcher

[davejb]

This subject on fantasy badges etc,I know its a minefield but I visited a militaria museum near Wissant ,France last year and one of the displays was set out like a german shop front, all the items in the window display are totally genuine and believe you me there are items there that in nearly 45yrs of collecting I HAVE NEVER SEEN. The owner will only have genuine items in his collection and he will sell certain items at venues like War and Peace and Oddesey.Some of the badges are so rare they are like hens teeth and will demand very high prices.So although there are many fantasy items out there dont dismiss an item out of hand just because it hasnt been seen before it could be that one in a million that we hear about so often.

[Luther]

Hello davejb,

Your point is well taken.

I did not mean to "slam" the badge. After re-reading my posts perhaps I gave that impression. I meant no "ill-will" towards the badge.

My stance is neutral on this badge at this point in time as no one really seems to know anything about it. My recommendation is to err on the side of caution. No not caution - that's not what I mean. What I mean is that such a badge, being unknown, should be analyzed conservatively. It's hard to resist the temptation to just pull out the cash and claim one's "prize." It's hard not to want to believe. However, that kind of blind enthusiasm is quite dangerous.

When it comes to collecting militaria all of us have to take a risk now and then. My only advice is to do whatever possible to mitigate such risk through good research and wise decisions. I think that is very good advice. Afterall, no one likes being "burnt."

The gentleman did the right thing. He came to this forum for advice. In the end, he paid relatively little for it which minimizes his downside should it turn out to be a fantasy piece.

Almost every analysis of this badge that I have come across states what the Heereswaffenamt and Heeres Abnahme were - their function and purpose within the armaments production system. The fact that Heeres Waffenamt (HWA) existed and their important function are always quoted as being the reason for the such a badge's existence. However, while it may support why a badge may have been produced, it is not sufficient evidence that such badges were ever produced, and more importantly, is not de facto proof that the Heeres Abnahme pin badges currently appearing on the market are authentic.

It's like arguing that since Abraham Lincoln lived that all pennies with his portrait are genuine. That is not a sound argument for the existence or authenticity for any object. While a connection can be made between the Heereswaffenamt organization and the badge, the connection alone does not make any such badge real. That's all I'm trying to say.

The gentleman only paid 80 Euros, so if it turns out to be a fantasy piece he didn't get rooked too badly. I really hope that the badge is real. I really do.

* * * * *

Note on the example, the pin points to the right. This is different than the four other examples that I have seen. On each of those the pin faces to the left. This shows that there are pin variations.

For the sake of comparison, note the Heeres Abnahme badge's great similarity to the vehicle license placard "Landcar." It has the same general make-up: red pain over what appears to be the same type of metal. Photo attached.

* * * * *

I've also attached photos of the fantasy Peenemunde-West airfield badges. I'd like to point out that these are rather convincing: well applied "wear," stamped identification number in the low range, and relatively high quality. I'll admit, with the thrill of "discovering" a previously unknown badge - especially one connected to the V1/V2 rocket programs - I very nearly purchased a couple. But alas, after researching it on this forum as well as others, I learned that it is completely bogus.

Best Regards,

Luther
Third.Reich.Researcher

[Luther]

Hello All,

I just spent about two hours doing a comparative analysis of known examples of this badge - 090, 210, 228, and 260.

After all that work, I forgot the system would boot me out of Login. When I submitted all the work - and photos - nothing uploaded.

For the moment TRUST ME - the Heeres Abnahme "badges" are not authentic Third Reich produced items.

I will re-write and post all the dirty details you need to be convinced that these badges are absolutely FAKE.

Hints: Paint Finish Problems, All Produced by Same Die, Differences in Device & Lettering Relief, Color, Different Aging between Obverse & Reverse, Burnishing Striations and File Marks, and New Pins on "Old" badges! And the Biggie - after some 60+ years they just started to show up within the past year.

The inappropiriate aging of the plated pins was where I started...some too new for the amount and type of wear on the reverses.

CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Best Regards

[Luther]

Just to get started...

228 and 260 have been ground down. Look at the eagle's legs. The vertical line clearly visible on 090 are missing. Then compare eye, beak and feather relief. Both 228 and 260 have a much lower relief on the devices and lettering.

The obverse on 228 is ground so far down that it actually took off some of the paint! What did you think those dark spots are above the eagle's head? That ain't dirt - it's paint removal via sanding. All of the striations visible in this dark spot are parallel! Plus there's striations all along the rim.

The pin on 228 is new! The pin is plated and shows virtually no wear even after being buried for many years! It's shiny! And that ain't no replacement pin so don't even go there. Look at the apostrophe after Heeres on the ground dug example - it's painted red! The badge was supposedly produced by painting the entire front, then after drying, burnish the paint off the high relief. That red paint on the lettering of Heeres & apostrophe is a tell-tale sign that it's bogus. Finally, the swatiska was never painted black! The black paint would not be completely removed.

Likewise the pin on 260 is new. Look at how beat the reverse is - filing marks, heavily "worn" surfaces and dark age color...but look at that shiny new pin atop well-worn badge. Check out how smashed the Turck & Treer Ludenshied letters are, but that pin ain't got a ding.

All of them were produced from the same dies.

[Jan]

Interesting and very convincing work Luther

Rgds Jan

Just to get started...

228 and 260 have been ground down. Look at the eagle's legs. The vertical line clearly visible on 090 are missing. Then compare eye, beak and feather relief. Both 228 and 260 have a much lower relief on the devices and lettering.

The obverse on 228 is ground so far down that it actually took off some of the paint! What did you think those dark spots are above the eagle's head? That ain't dirt - it's paint removal via sanding. All of the striations visible in this dark spot are parallel! Plus there's striations all along the rim.

The pin on 228 is new! The pin is plated and shows virtually no wear even after being buried for many years! It's shiny! And that ain't no replacement pin so don't even go there. Look at the apostrophe after Heeres on the ground dug example - it's painted red! The badge was supposedly produced by painting the entire front, then after drying, burnish the paint off the high relief. That red paint on the lettering of Heeres & apostrophe is a tell-tale sign that it's bogus. Finally, the swatiska was never painted black! The black paint would not be completely removed.

Likewise the pin on 260 is new. Look at how beat the reverse is - filing marks, heavily "worn" surfaces and dark age color...but look at that shiny new pin atop well-worn badge. Check out how smashed the Turck & Treer Ludenshied letters are, but that pin ain't got a ding.

All of them were produced from the same dies.