Deutscher Adlerorden mit Stern und Schwerten.

**Adrian** · 07-25-2013, 12:22 PM

The point I am trying to get to is what makes one award original and one fake?
How do we know that both aren't fake or original?
What are the tell tale signs of a good one?
The rivets on the Weitze piece are solid, yours are hollow. Godet did produce solid rivets on their DKs.
I've never seen a pin with a semi circular flange attached to it from Godet or any other maker.

I apologise if my questions are persistent but this forum is used as a reference site and if someone is researching with a view to purchasing one of these pieces we need to know without doubt that what we are looking at is genuine, why it is genuine and with decent evidence to back it up.

With respect, we aren't all going to take one persons word for it because that person says so. I could post an SS Flying U-Boat award and state it's genuine because the pin matches one seen on an Eisernes Kreuz made by Deschler but it doesn't make it real - do you see what I'm saying and what the objective of the discussion is?

You say your pieces are original, please back up your statements with facts and evidence.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-25-2013 12:22 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**petesav** · 07-25-2013, 01:29 PM

Well Persistant yes so true.
I cant keep saying to look at the hard wear to rear,does this forum have a dater base with diffrent reconised configerations of hinges and the like.
If you wish to look at the larger and more specilased sites such as WAF and GCA you will find all of these there.
Also you will find exact awards of these there in the original sections.
I am not sure how by looking at a black and white photo will help.
Also ime pretty sure that Ditlev Niemann would be a bit surprised to find his section on these are copies.
Also please look at the eagles .These eagles as of yet have never been copied to well.I do have a 2nd class brest cross and a 4th class with swords if you wish to see again a fake and the CLASSIC Godet construction.
There is a Forum dedicated to this award if you want to go have a look see.
If you go and see the classic signes of a good Godet you will know the diffrence between the Originals i have posted and the fake on the dealers site.
The quality of the dealers one was very poor surley you could see that.
Please go and check out that site do a good recon and let me know the out come .
I am always very interested in your views as you do have a great deal of experince .
Best regards.

**Adrian** · 07-25-2013, 01:47 PM

Thank you for your reply. I have found one with the same set up as the Weitze badge which you claim is fake that was called original by a collector who specialises in these awards so could it not be true that there was more than one variant?

**Adrian** · 07-25-2013, 01:49 PM

by petesav

I am always very interested in your views as you do have a great deal of experince.

I will correct you on that one, I have no experience of these awards, I am trying to learn, hence my questions and trying to stimulate some debate.

**petesav** · 07-25-2013, 02:16 PM

Ok i have no problem calling that a crap one.
Firstly the cross is not in line with the rear.The swastickers are un even there is a very clumsey heavy outer line to the eagles .The rear plate is cut out all un even if you look to the opposites.
Rear.
Shoddy work to the fixing of the hinge, the catch is bloody huge.The rivits look like rivets off a steam liner.Again you can see the un-even of the back plate .and why would they need to put silber on a high end award.
Come on Adrain this was a high end award up in the area of the Knights cross .These were only top end awards never would you hand a piece like this to a VIP would you.
Also just spotted looks to be a fault in the right arm of the cross in the frame and the enamel looks to be a twist may be the light

**Adrian** · 07-25-2013, 03:08 PM

As far as my research has told me thus far, the double marked pieces were the earlier version.

**Glenn66** · 07-25-2013, 04:00 PM

I am here to learn also and similar to Adrian, don't appreciate simply being told to accept something because someone says so. Who is to say that a high end award with a 'silber' stamp wouldn't be handed to a VIP. Why not? Unless the VIP is a jeweller or high end award collector would they necessarily be offended by such an award? I would imagine that the honour of receiving a high decoration should outweigh the perceived quality of the award itself. I don't doubt your expertise petesav but I personally prefer concrete facts over blind belief in assumptions. Healthy discussion over new items of interest I strongly encourage but personal affront at being asked questions over your presented piece I do not. Why did you show your award in the first place? To be put before the forum for discussion or simply to receive kudos?

**mariscal rommel** · 07-25-2013, 04:41 PM

I think that is Pete confused.
The showing of their collection is 100% original but which have for sale Weitze also is. Each belongs to different period and Ordinance and that some characteristics are different. I put some data to identify them:

-Order star of 1937: differs from the others in the form of Eagles, the catching and shows the marking on the back "SILBER 800"

-Order star of 1939-1943: shows how we all know in the Eagles, rivets, hinge and catching and shows the "900" marking on the needle. The back shows a mirrored Sheen that we don't see in the 1937 version.

-Order star of 1943-1945: exactly the same as the previous version but now shows the marking "900 21" on the needle.

Therefore, order with Helmut Weitze star is undoubtedly authentic and that my good friend Petesav shows it is also, only that have been manufactured in different periods and its designs are different also.