Deutscher Adlerorden mit Stern und Schwerten.

[Adrian]

Ok i have no problem calling that a crap one.
Firstly the cross is not in line with the rear.The swastickers are un even there is a very clumsey heavy outer line to the eagles .The rear plate is cut out all un even if you look to the opposites.
Rear.
Shoddy work to the fixing of the hinge, the catch is bloody huge.The rivits look like rivets off a steam liner.Again you can see the un-even of the back plate .and why would they need to put silber on a high end award.
Come on Adrain this was a high end award up in the area of the Knights cross .These were only top end awards never would you hand a piece like this to a VIP would you.
Also just spotted looks to be a fault in the right arm of the cross in the frame and the enamel looks to be a twist may be the light

Don't forget that not all awards were made absolutely identical and in fact, shoddy workmanship, flaws, faults et al are often used to identify and authenticate pieces.
Not all Ritterkreuz were perfect, many have flaws in the beading, the details of which we use to date them, pin them to a maker and more importantly distinguish between real and fake.
High end or low end pieces have all been shown to be less than perfect when we examine them up close and the quality of manufacture should not be used as the defining factor in trying to establish whether a piece is real or fake.

[mariscal rommel]

1937-1939 example, maker mark on rear of star "SILBER 800"




1939-1943, maker mark 900 on needle




1943-1945 example, mm 900 and 21 on needle




For more information, please visit my forum:
Adlerorden

[Glenn66]

The finish to the reverse of these awards is simply stunning. That in and of itself would have me questioning authenticity as being 'too perfect'.

[petesav]

Hi there Jesus.
How you doing .
as much as this will make Adrian jump for joy .The message you sent me yesterday concerning the other item.I do remember asking you about the 800 mark concerning these and the reply was a big no .Its on the end of your last email you sent me.

[Adrian]

as much as this will make Adrian jump for joy .

???

I hope you're not inferring I will be happy because you are wrong about the Weitze type awards? If that is the case you are very much mistaken. I am very happy that we have now had a resolution to whether or not they are real or fake.
A few hours researching today has given me the answers I was seeking and I asked Jesús to take a look at the thread to add his weight to the discussion. As I'm sure you are aware, he has the best collection of these awards you are likely to see and his study of them is to be respected.

As always, do your research before committing to a purchase or an opinion.

[mariscal rommel]

At that time I referred to mark 800 on the needle that you can see in the needles of some fakes and reproductions not at the "SILBER 800" marking can be seen on the orders of 1937.

This is what I I meant when I asked for the 800 mark.
NEVER was made an order of the German Eagle with 800 marking on the needle.





Sorry for the confusion. At that time I asked for the 800 mark.
If you had told me that you referred to the marking "SILBER 800" you had said that if that existed that marking of the first orders of 1937

[mariscal rommel]

Calm down guys. We are here to learn and does not go another day without that we learn something new, two have good examples of the order of the German Eagle in your collections, and you think good guys. We already have enough problems in the daily life to quarrel or compete also in the forums. I feel the confusion Pete, I imagine that they are our different language problems.

Greetings to the two

[Glenn66]

Some days it is very like the WAF here...

[petesav]

Thanks Jesus.
Yes i did ask that question a few years ago ,seem we got a bit lost there.I can now continue with a greater understanding of this award..
As this type i only have seen 2 of to date was this a protertype ???? if not who was the maker if not Godet???????????
Also i must say it is made very bad .I know Adrian says about quality vasries even with the KC awards but i havent ever seen a KC with a well wonkey pin and miss aligned front or un-even cross legs.???????
Can you give me more insite to this award.Also thanks for posting some pictures of the ones i have already posted AT LAST they will be vieved as original.
Thanks again for the aditional info.
My best regards Pete

[Adrian]

Also thanks for posting some pictures of the ones i have already posted AT LAST they will be vieved as original

Pete, I don't think anyone has said your pieces aren't original, the point of the questions was to establish WHY they're original.

With respect, you show a high end award that many of us have never studied in detail and proclaim it's an original. That's fine but the enquiring minds of collectors need more than just one person to say so and offer more in the way of backed up evidence.

As said previously we aren't going to sit back and just accept it as original and heap praise upon you for owning one or twelve, we require a bit more information about it. Comparing to another award that you said was fake when just half an hour of research would've told you it was original just doesn't cut it.
Your reasoning wasn't adding up in my mind which is why I kept asking and making points that I hoped you would enter into discussion upon.

Jesús has provided us with the information to enable us to study, look closer at and note the features, variants, timelines which is what we have been asking you to help us with.

Saying one badge is more original vs another that is also original just because it looks better, is made better and is different so it must be good are not valid reasons to explain and educate the rest of us.

My questions today have all been designed to open up the debate, get some informed involvement and facts produced to back up your theories, not to call into question your awards until there is reason to question them. In this case there isn't so good for you, you have some very nice pieces and I hope you will share the others in your collection with us for discussion and education.
We have all learnt something and in fact I have spent most of my day looking at these awards and have therefore educated myself.