last one
last one
Hi Jonno,
The notches around the date shield are a big problem if there's only 8 of 'em!I can only assume that it could be possible it has been replaced in the past with a spurious one as everything else seems to match in all details as far as I'm concerned, I can't see anything wrong there....
There's no possibility of the wreath being a Zimmermann one that's for certain, as the date shield never had any notches whatsoever around it, check any genuine Zimmermann or Klein cross to see this. As it stands I would have to say let it pass on the strength of this anomaly, something ain't right somewhere....
Regards, Ned.
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
No question, that's fake.by John Brandon
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
Here's two accepted originals. 13 notches as per the design type 2 used on all cloth DK's as far as is known.
First one shows little sign of the double flaw, but it's there and can be put down to either a light strike or likely an earlier produced wreath that had the flaw but it hadn't started to develop as much as later examples.
And one that is clearly the same only with a more developed double flaw, but still original.
And finally the date shield on your example, bearing no similarities whatsoever to those above.
I still can't understand why the rest of the cross appears legit, there should be something that raises the alarm if it's fake, but I see nothing untoward other than the fake wreath....
Regards, Ned.
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
Nice thread... GHere's two accepted originals. 13 notches as per the design type 2 used on all cloth DK's as far as is known.
First one shows little sign of the double flaw, but it's there and can be put down to either a light strike or likely an earlier produced wreath that had the flaw but it hadn't started to develop as much as later examples.
And one that is clearly the same only with a more developed double flaw, but still original.
And finally the date shield on your example, bearing no similarities whatsoever to those above.
I still can't understand why the rest of the cross appears legit, there should be something that raises the alarm if it's fake, but I see nothing untoward other than the fake wreath....
Regards, Ned.
I'd rather be A "RaD Man than a Mad Man "
Absolutely brilliant thread and descriptive work Ned.
I have one or two of these crosses so it is something for me to do some study on.
John if the one that started the thread is yours and is for sale please send a pm as I have quite an extensive (inadvertent) collection of repro stuff
All the best
Doug
In case any more evidence is needed of the flawed '9', 13 notch wreath, here is my example...
Doug
It's not mine, although I have it in hand, it is one I've never been comfortable with since I first saw it, but I said I would "ask"
For me, if I bought it, it was always going to be a hard sell. so back it will go, it wasn't a lot of money, but enough. And as Ned has pointed out, everything else about it seems legit, but the question is, why a fake wreath? One of those things I suppose,
I've been looking around for a similar cloth cross with that fake wreath and eventually came across this one that was discussed and called fake on another forum a few years back; one of the respondants was Dietrich Maerz, author of the "DK Bible" who said: "I have never seen an example like this and I have some reservations. I don't think the wreath is ok and somehow the grey star looks off. Certainly not an example where I could say "original."
Take note that the construction and materials used are slightly different and less convincing (the background cloth of the swastika, the misshapen grey starburst and the extra silver ray threads etc.). but lets concentrate on the wreath.
It's exactly the same as on Jonno's cross, the 8 notches and the same odd looking digits that form the '1941' date. The exaggerated wings that border the shield are also identical and not seen on original Juncker wreaths on either cloth or metal DK's. Even the leaves and ribbon are wrong when compared to originals. Every detail is clear in these pic's below, it becomes screamingly obvious at a single glance.
It's nice to be able to put this matter to rest, the wreath is 100% fake and that in turn negates any value in the cross even if the rest IS legitimate, which is now in doubt to put it mildly.....
Regards, Ned.
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
Top class detective work there Ned!
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