Heer Schützenschnur - Grade 5

[Wilhelm Saris]

Will have a look, Fred. Maybe I have overseen things!
Possibly the swords within a wreath and over the wreath?

[Wilhelm Saris]

Normally I can give answers, but this time I do have a question:

We all know the shield-form for the lowest grades (1 through 4)
was changed into another version. Can somebody help me with
the offical order for the changing, please!

And can someone tell me the difference for the swords within
the wreath and the form where the swords are being positioned
over the wreath? I am curious to know and eagerly would like to
upgrade my knowledge about this subject!

[Fred Green]

Hello,

From "BULLS-EYE" by Neil Stewart and Tim Curley.

Fred

[Wilhelm Saris]

Thanks Fred, but his is a current work.
I am looking for information which was published before the end of the war!

[weller]

Hello,

From "BULLS-EYE" by Neil Stewart and Tim Curley.

Fred

Here is a link I found sometime back:

C:\Websites\deutschesoldaten.com\uniforms\lanyard. htm

[Wilhelm Saris]

Thanks weller, knew this website, but it is neither what I was looking for.
I am looking for specific information about the badge with swords within
the oakleave wreath! Best would be an old and period-cataloque showing
this version!`

I was confused with the text in a 1939-cataloque as from Friedrich Linden.
Their text says the old pattern badge was revised into a new form, but
actually they mentioned the use for the version for the grades 5-8. They
gave it a new article-number, but showed the oakleaves with the sword on
top of the oakleaves. I have to blame Friedrich Linden for my confusion
(or I did not look well).
It is obvious one cannot always believe what in catalogues is said. Is it
correct Fred when I say post 5 from weller shows a grade 4 with new pattern
device; post 7 also a grade 4, but the old pattern device!

I found a wartime plate for the army in my files where it is said:
Grade 1 - 4: a simple oakleaf wreath (einfachem Eichenlaubkranz);
Grade 5 - 8: oakleaf wreath (the word "einfach" was not included here).

[Fred Green]

Hello Wilhelm,

Is it
correct Fred when I say post 5 from weller shows a grade 4 with new pattern
device; post 7 also a grade 4, but the old pattern device!

It is correct.

Fred

[weller]

So, I have two Grade = 4 examples. Post #7 is 1st pattern. Post #5 is 2nd pattern. Avenger's example is Grade = 1 2nd pattern. Correct?

Also, on the example in Post #5, is this an Artillery example since it has "shells' instead of 'acorns'?

Thanks to all for your assistance