Junker Kombiniertes Piloten- und Beobachterabzeichen real or fake?

**drml1958** · 07-23-2018, 02:53 AM

Hi guys, came across this the other day, and from the many many fakes i see this one instantly stood out as something that at least had potential to be real haha. The wear on it doesn't look too forced and the quality does look pretty good to me. What i dont like about it is the pitting of the eagle on the back, could this be just the metal deterioration as you can see with the pin, or a sign its a bad cast fake? let me know what you think

Junker Kombiniertes Piloten- und Beobachterabzeichen real or fake?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-23-2018 02:53 AM

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**rbminis** · 07-23-2018, 04:10 AM

Not my area of study but I don't think this is a Juncker eagle.
The hardware looks good but your photos are a little small to see the eagle's detail.
Wait for opinions from some of our members that are more familiar with these awards.
Ralph.

**Franjo Vuk** · 07-23-2018, 11:57 AM

It should be Juncker J3 combined pilots/observer badge made from buntmetal, but it does not match with original example. Rivets are wrong, claws on eagle are wrong, cut-outs around the claws and on the wings are wrong, also head of the eagle is off as well as some other details on eagle and on the wreath so I would say it is a fake.

Best regards,
Franko

**Saladin** · 07-23-2018, 02:07 PM

Well I for one am quite impressed with the reverse shot but believe it would be impossible to make a decision on the obverse shot you posted drml.

Franko has better eyes than me as I can't see any of the eagle detail but most importantly any on the wreath.

The horrible casting like finish on the eagle is typical on J3 Juncker badges but generally the wreath is the same poor quality on some badges.
The wreath on your badge at the back looks more typical to a J2 badge with a nice quality finish but without seeing a good picture of the front it you would never be able to tell.

The reverse profile of both the eagle and wreath look acceptable to me and they do vary on other badges due to hand finishing.

The rivets don't look too bad and the one which has a particularly big dimple on the right might just be a result of a punch tightening the domed rivet.
The only other dimpled rivets I know of are the ones on GWL LW badges.

I do like the way there is some surplus metal on the wing tips.

I don't like the pitted and rusting pin.

Sorry I can't be of any more help but without some good pictures I wouldn't want to call on this scarce badge

Cheers
Doug

**drml1958** · 07-23-2018, 03:11 PM

Thanks for the replies guys, at this stage i dont have any more photos

i have been having a look around and there does seem to be a few examples of J2/ J3 hybrids that match this one very closely, what do you think about those?

**Saladin** · 07-23-2018, 03:44 PM

You could be right...That's what I thought that it was a J3 Eagle on a J2 wreath.

These are the only pictures I have on my database of a J3 on J2

Without any more decent pictures of the front of the badge I guess we will never know if it's a good or a dud.

You have to bear in mind that apart from the glider and retired pilot badge the PO by Juncker is one of the hardest to find and has been copied extensively

Cheers
Doug