Nice Aircraft Destruction Badge

**Stewy S** · 01-11-2010, 09:25 PM

Right to left (top to bottom). Stewy S

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 01-11-2010 09:25 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**jock auld** · 01-11-2010, 09:36 PM

by Richard Kimmel

Jock ... Please do not interpret this the wrong way however, it's not my intent to do anything for today's people in the hobby. I went that route back in 1997 when I wrote and self-published a book titled "The Phenomenon Of Third Reich Badges - From The Hocus Bogus To True Genuine". The book sold over 1M copies in 22+ countries however, it was thought by the majority of collectors that I knew nothing of what I was speaking of. I attempted to warn collectors back then because I saw what was taking place in the hobby. When I introduced the book at that same years MAX Show, not one dealer reacted to it as the new it was completely true what I was saying and did not wish to blow their cover, so to speak. I see on some of the forums that some realize only today what I was speaking and warning collectors of back thirteen years ago. So, you see, I cannot have much feelings for those who still know not what they are doing today. My main reasons that I'm no longer in the main stream of militaria collecting today.

See Jock, you only think that you know where I'm coming from.

I remain the doddering old fool that you've attempted to portray me as. Again no offense.

Richard

Richard,

You are certainly no fool, dodering I'll give just for your age.

By your statement then I take it that you consider the youth of today fair game as they 'Know not what they do(JC)' or haven't got your book.

The phenominum you describe without looking at your book is no doubt that old valuable stuff (antique) will be copied and pedaled by frauds like yourself, who care not for the victim of today?

This is not new and entirely predictable. I can't belive you sold that many.

I know where your coming from and if I believed in your current (again I haven't seen) book I know where your going, do stay in touch when you get there.

Jock

**Richard Kimmel** · 01-11-2010, 09:41 PM

by Stewy S

The weave of the black stripes above & below the aircraft runs the wrong way. To stand any chance of being original it would run right to left,not viceversa. Stewy S

Stewy ... Do you have a known "genuine" example to compare to? Not the TDB.

**jock auld** · 01-11-2010, 09:54 PM

by Richard Kimmel

Stewy ... Do you have a known "genuine" example to compare to? Not the tank destruction badge.

That is the point no one has, you choose your pitch carefully, you started at $12000 went to $1200 (type error, conveniant) and then setteled at $200 (who were your friends that put you straight, I'd like to know so I can aviod them) . You said you don't care about todays collector. I don't see how you can come back from this one? Retire proper!

Jock

**Richard Kimmel** · 01-11-2010, 09:55 PM

by jock auld

Richard,

You are certainly no fool, dodering I'll give just for your age.

By your statement then I take it that you consider the youth of today fair game as they 'Know not what they do(JC)' or haven't got your book.

The phenominum you describe without looking at your book is no doubt that old valuable stuff (antique) will be copied and pedaled by frauds like yourself, who care not for the victim of today?

This is not new and entirely predictable. I can't belive you sold that many.

I know where your coming from and if I believed in your current (again I haven't seen) book I know where your going, do stay in touch when you get there.

Jock

Jock ... Wrong again, the Phenomenon I referred to was the less than honorable practices that were taking place in the hobby and the collectors thinking that simply because an item had a swastika on it that it was genuine. In its simplicity, I had the guts to blow the whistle on the hobby. Possibly someone today will have the similar guts to help the young collectors that you so adamently refer to. I did my time in hell.

End of my comments on this discussion so enjoy your hayday.

**Richard Kimmel** · 01-11-2010, 09:57 PM

by jock auld

That is the point no one has, you choose your pitch carefully, you started at $12000 went to $1200 (type error, conveniant) and then setteled at $200 (who were your friends that put you straight, I'd like to know so I can aviod them) . You said you don't care about todays collector. I don't see how you can come back from this one? Retire proper!

Jock

Please show me where I stated 12,000? I believe that you may be a bit confused.

**jock auld** · 01-11-2010, 09:59 PM

by Richard Kimmel

Jock ... Wrong again, the Phenomenon I referred to was the less than honorable practices that were taking place in the hobby and the collectors thinking that simply because an item had a swastika on it that it was genuine. In its simplicity, I had the guts to blow the whistle on the hobby. Possibly someone today will have the similar guts to help the young collectors that you so adamently refer to. I did my time in hell.

End of my comments on this discussion so enjoy your hayday.

Richard,

Where was your hell by the way?

Jock

**Stewy S** · 01-11-2010, 09:59 PM

In a word,no i haven't Richard

. But as the cloth backing was supposed to be the same & there are exact examples of the backing cloth yours displays,that are known to be fake (TDB & ADB). It seems strange that yours would be genuine. Has anyone out there have pics of an ADB (that they've owned or had in hand). That has anything but the same weave Richards displays? I doubt it. Any ADB troubles me. Fantasy items IMO,i'd like to be proved wrong,but for now i doubt i will,sorry. Stewy S

**jock auld** · 01-11-2010, 10:05 PM

by Richard Kimmel

Please show me where I stated 12,000? I believe that you may be a bit confused.

Richard,

You are correct, it was 1200 with an adjustment, maybe I'm thinking of your other stuff on the other sites with gold and rubys etc. My error regardless, still a lot for a $20 copy?

Jock

**jock auld** · 01-11-2010, 10:12 PM

by Stewy S

In a word,no i haven't Richard

. But as the cloth backing was supposed to be the same & there are exact examples of the backing cloth yours displays,that are known to be fake (tank destruction badge & Tieffliegervernichtungsabzeichen). It seems strange that yours would be genuine. Has anyone out there have pics of an Tieffliegervernichtungsabzeichen (that they've owned or had in hand). That has anything but the same weave Richards displays? I doubt it. Any Tieffliegervernichtungsabzeichen troubles me. Fantasy items IMO,i'd like to be proved wrong,but for now i doubt i will,sorry. Stewy S

Stewy,

We lend it credibility by even debating it. Just reading the first bit of this should get the 'greedy, ignorant youth' reading up on what the badge was even supposed to be. I made an error about the price which he latched on to he does not discuss the fact that he cares not for todays collector?

Jock