Post war Souval fake.by daveward
Post war Souval fake.
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
Thanks, Ned. That's what I thought... Given that the Ailsby site displays this fake medal as an example of an authentic piece, you can see why I might be less inclined to believe their claim that 35mm ribbons were the standard for these service medals.
Well,Dave, am not real sure as to what you are concerned about-the medals or the ribbons? If you are not accepting that the medals came with a 35mm ribbon, then what would you accept as authentic? When you look at several sites that gives very specific details for measurements and they match with each other, why is this not what you want to hear? I guess I'm confused here?
William
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
The obvious answer to help mop your fevered brow is to buy examples of the 30, 32, 35 and 37mm cornflower blue ribbons in both the plain and watered silk varieties and interchange them as and when the mood takes you Dave......, that'll work!
Regards, Ned.
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
Wagriff, I'm not trying to be difficult here, so let me explain my thought process. The way I see it, these items consist of 2 pieces: the medal and the ribbon. Obviously, as a collector, I would want to acquire one with both original pieces. In the original photo I provided, the medal is clearly authentic. However, I was questioning the originality of the ribbon to which it was attached. It is true that there are sources that list the 35mm ribbon as the standard for these medals, but this is, to some degree, contradicted by the large number of medals that seem to use a narrower ribbon, many of which were directly acquired in this state. I have yet to see a primary German manufacturing document (or something similar) that corroborates the claims made by these sources. This leads me to believe that these claims are based instead on personal experiences with examples that have been encountered, as is the case with much of the information in this hobby. If that is true, and medals have been directly acquired with narrower ribbons, I don't understand how the experts can deduce that the 35mm ribbon was the standard, and the 30mm/32mm ribbon was a replacement made after the fact. I also don't think it's wrong for me to be skeptical of information which states that the standard ribbon was 35mm when the author of this information seemingly cannot tell the difference between a Souval reproduction and an authentic medal. I am not trying to overlook facts to suit my own desires; rather, I am trying to confirm that they are, indeed, facts and not simply opinions. This may not be possible, but I figured I'd try.
Well, alrighty then...
William
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
Haha, Ned, you kidder!!I think it's clear that the real answer for me is to wait until I can find an authentic medal with a 35mm ribbon. This way, there can be no doubts as to the originality of both pieces. A 30mm ribbon may still be a period piece, and could either have been used by the manufacturer in place of the 35mm ribbon, or added by another party after the fact. However, since there seems to be no way to be certain, I doubt that I could ever be comfortable with a narrower ribbon on an SS service medal in my collection...
Another trap to watch out for is the fact that the teardrop ribbon loop on the SS award is soldered/welded closed. Whereas LS awards have a loop that is open and can be bent slightly to permit a ribbon (the sewn ribbon with safety pin device) to be passed through the loop. The ribbon can be pierced to accommodate the loop as you'll never be able to unstitch the safety pin, thread the ribbon through the loop and restitch the whole schmozzle back together neatly.
With my 8 year where I married it up to a civil LS ribbon I had to cut open the bottom 'V' of the ribbon, insert the teardrop loop and stitch the cut closed again. Damned fiddly work when one has fingers like bananas I have to say but the result was acceptable. Certainly no-one would ever think the ribbon is original to the award but for display quite acceptable.
The low(er) price of an award sans ribbon plus the cost of a civil LS ribbon (in my case free from Daniel at Great Militaria) was a good $200 less than a supposedly 'matched' set. The fact that 8 year awards with a 'correct' ribbon at the right price almost never come on the market (and when they do are gone in an instant) means compromises have to be made in the interim. Perhaps I will trade up to an original complete example one day but the $800-$1000 that guys are asking these days is prohibitive.
Found a picture to illustrate...it was actually the 4 year example I performed the LS ribbon switcheroony on...
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