SS-Dienstauszeichnung 3.Stufe (8 Jahre).

[Glenn66]

I agree Ned, I think somebody took poor Pat's Uncle for a ride at some point. (Wouldn't have thought they were already knocking out cast fakes in 1945 already but there you go...'zos dastardly germonz und zer fecking ingenuity!'...)

[IrishTexan]

Thanks to all for the analysis and reference images. I can certainly see the differences in crispness mentioned. As I noted earlier, it seemed strange that it doesn't have a ribbon loop.

I guess I'm still surprised that such copies were being produced as early as July 1945 but that probably just reflects my naiveté. My uncle entered Germany in April 1945 and I believe that this medal was sent home in August of that year based on some circumspect references in letters written home at that time. He was back in the States by the end of 1945.

My uncle's assignments with the Financial division took him to quite a few interesting places in southern Germany, including Berchtesgarten and Neuschwanstein. He even shared offices at one time with Monuments Man, James Rorimer.

I must note that this medal was not stored very carefully for most of the 68 years it has been in our family's possession. As such, it's suffered some wear but probably not enough to account for the deficiencies noted.

[Adrian]

There is a saying in the collecting community 'evaluate the item not the story that comes with it'.

In this case the item doesn't hold up to scrutiny compared to an original.

Could it be that the item may have been added to your Grandfather's possessions? or maybe the original was sold and substituted?

I don't believe these items were being reproduced by fakers before the war ended for one minute. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[bigmacglenn]

We occasionally come across reproductions among veteran's belongings...usually they are items that were added to the collection postwar...I agree with Adrian 100%...This is most likely an item that he added to his souvenirs years after the war...
cheers, Glenn

[IrishTexan]

I first saw my Uncle's war relics, including this item, in the early 1960s. They were just kept in a box and not displayed. That's quite a few years since his war service during which someone might have given him a fake/replica or, less likely, he bought one. Based on what I know of him, he wasn't into buying and selling memorabilia.

From my posts earlier this year, this is just one of a number of relics I inherited from him and have finally been researching. He's been gone for many years and thus not available to ask. And although I have the daily(!) letters he wrote home while overseas, none that I've found to date provide details on which medals were shipped home when. I do have a 1945 signed release from his commanding officer that mentions several artifacts in a general way, including a reference to "miscellaneous medals." But there aren't any specifics.

Adrian's saying regarding the item and its "story" is a wise one. The logic seems unassailable: if the apparent quality of this medal makes it a copy, and if it's very unlikely that fakes were being turned out at the time my uncle was in Germany, then this must have been acquired sometime later.

Thanks again to all for your help!

Pat

[JonFish]

Sometimes vets were ripped off by collectors who looked at the items and swapped them without the vets noticing, however due to these not have the rings I would find that not to be the case this time as it would have been very noticeable.
Pat I have sent you a message that you can open at the top of the page 'notifications', thanks.

[all1knew]

not commenting on the badge that started this thread, but perhaps taken from a factory and is an unfinished piece, maybe a reject, maybe a 'one-time" manufacture by a smaller maker for a display board of items that could be ordered? Just theories and not saying one way or the other, bu nothing is impossible.

William Kramer

[Glenn66]

I wouldn't be throwing it out but certainly it should be in the 'questionable' box.

[Wagriff]

This "medal" was obviously made with discarded and broken dies, as can be seen by the numerous die cracks evident in the surfaces, so it can be definitely ruled out that it is anything officially produced. At very best, it is a curio made from broken and worn dies-undoubtedly after the war, as to produce such a thing During the TR era would certainly have resulted in severe penalties and punishment.