Two Cloth Deutsche Kreuz in Gold for Opinions...

[dzyner]

Hi all. Not well versed in the cloth German Crosses so any opinions are appreciated. To me they don't look good, but yet they pass the black-light test so I want to be absolutely sure.

Shots of German Cross #1:









Shots of German Cross #2:





(Back Side)


Thanks!
Dzyner

I collect World War 2 US, Japanese and German Medals and badges.

[HD1450]

No good

[Neil Hever]

Number 1 is a better effort than number 2 but appears fake. Number 2 seems really poor. The Hakenkreuz is not the right size for starters. These are tricky because the repros made in the late 60s and early 70s look really old now. NH

[Adrian]

They are both shockingly poor. Have you tried a search and compared to the many original examples on the forum?

[dzyner]

Thanks for the feedback guys. As stated, I assumed these were repros but never hurts to check. @Adrian, yes I did, but again... never hurts to check (in my opinion). Plus I personally like posting the repros as well -- they can help ID fakes just as much as the originals.

[Neil Hever]

Looking at original examples is a very good idea as pointed out in earlier posts. But it probably helps to offer some feedback on why these are bad. Number one has odd red and silver stitching around the edges of the Hakenkreuz and white circle - nowhere near the original type. It looks like the firm reproducing it had no correct braid available. Right there you have a dead giveaway. NH

[dzyner]

Hi Neil. Yes, always helps to point out the "why" when noting reproductions. That's one thing I always try to do when commenting on this forum, and others. Doesn't help collectors learn when they don't know the reasons an item is considered a repro.

[Adrian]

However, posting and getting the answers handed out on a plate doesn't encourage a collector to do any homework for themselves before asking..........

Much better to post and say, 'I believe these are fake because of x y and z' as it shows some research has been done prior to posting.

[Neil Hever]

I posted this example about a year ago and it got shot down as repro. It sure looks like a WWII era example! The wreath was problematic as well as the white cloth background and the position and shape of the Hakenkreuz. It was helpful to compare it to original examples and to get specific feedback on the details. NH

And as an amendment to Adrian's post - yes - please do make an effort to do some research. I did but was still unsure about the Cross I had found and let the crew here review it. : )

[big ned]

All cloth Deutsche Kreuz in Gold's/DKIS's have one thing in common. They all use the 2nd pattern wreath made by Juncker without exception. This wreath is instantly identifiable as such by the two flaws that are present to a greater or lesser extent on the number '9' of the date of nearly all cloth crosses. They became more pronounced as production and wear on the wreath die occurred over time. BUT, there are occasional cloth versions that do not show any flaws on the '9', these are rare and assumed to be very early production as the stamping is noticably crisper than later versions.

Another 'tell' that the wreath is the 2nd pattern Juncker type is the 13 notches below the date, these are always present on genuine cloth DK wreaths bar none.

So, both clues combined, that's one surefire way of spotting a genuine piece.......Unless the bad guys get to using the real wreath with the flaws described, or a copy thereof!

Bear this information in mind, along with the look/make up of the rest of the award, and you won't go far wrong.

Regards, Ned.