Is this hitler signature any good?

**Paul D** · 02-13-2012, 09:42 AM

drmessimer i must admit that depite googling and researching Otto Meissner who i was aware of anyway i haven't been able to find any information that confirms that he he did in fact copy and sign the signature itself on behalf of Hitler.

Can you point us in the direction of said information to authenticate this information ?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 02-13-2012 09:42 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Panzer 3** · 02-13-2012, 12:57 PM

Hi,
This thread has become fascinating and enjoyable i look forward to the outcome, i would like to address just one comment that Woske has made. As i have said a few times before the piece of paper i put on the thread. I dont know the history of where it had been before it was given to me, But as Woske had dismissed it so readily as a fake,
i would like to ask a question if as you say you have seen the very same piece in a prestigious book by Hamilton, then why is Hamiltons signature original and the one i have is fake. It could be one of the same i dont know, and neither does anyone else. i
do hope you have an answer as in one of four Pm,s to me about how i dont understand the use of the english language and the arrogant and nasty way you spoke to me i do hope this is clear enough for you.
Dave.
PS, as i said it is just a piece of paper to me it is of no interest as i dont like old Adulf anyway.

**Woske** · 02-13-2012, 01:41 PM

by Panzer 3

Hi,
This thread has become fascinating and enjoyable i look forward to the outcome, i would like to address just one comment that Woske has made. As i have said a few times before the piece of paper i put on the thread. I dont know the history of where it had been before it was given to me, But as Woske had dismissed it so readily as a fake,
i would like to ask a question if as you say you have seen the very same piece in a prestigious book by Hamilton, then why is Hamiltons signature original and the one i have is fake. It could be one of the same i dont know, and neither does anyone else. i
do hope you have an answer as in one of four Pm,s to me about how i dont understand the use of the english language and the arrogant and nasty way you spoke to me i do hope this is clear enough for you.
Dave.
PS, as i said it is just a piece of paper to me it is of no interest as i dont like old Adulf anyway.

Dave,
Please don't act the innocent. After saying on here several times in open forum that you did not wish to continue the discussion, you immediately proceeded to do just that by PM and did not let it drop. In your PMs you immaturely challenged me to act like a man and then "run to my friends on the forum and bleat that you had been nasty to me." I remained polite throughout until you accused me of being a boring Hitler lover and a Nazi, after which I accused you of being a twat, which is how you were acting. If you prefer, we can post our PM exchanges here in open forum and let others decide who has been rude, immature and quite frankly unable to discuss on an intellectual level.
To return to your question, the letter illustrated in Hamilton's book has a facsimile signature. Hamilton points out that there were several versions of this letter circulating (as I pointed out in an earlier post) and that they should all be considered suspect. In fact, your example does not even have the correct address for the Privatkanzlei. I choose to believe the one-time world authority on Hitler letters over you.
I am not a dealer, nor have I ever claimed to be an expert, but I am an experienced collector of Third Reich autographs. I have researched Third Reich history since 1963 and have gained a good knowledge of the Hitler regime. I give my opinion on various signatures on this forum because I choose to do so in the hope that it prevents some collectors from making a mistake and buying something worthless. I gain absolutely nothing from this. If a collector chooses to ignore my opinion, then that is their choice. I don't have a problem with that. In return, I have been insulted and accused of being a Nazi lover by disgruntled collectors who believed they had genuine autographs where they obviously did not. I have been threatened with physical assault and legal action. Where I can I provide evidence to support my opinion, but some people, you included, refuse to see the wood for the trees. Some people go over the same old naive arguments time and time again.
I am now at a point where I am wondering if it is worth all the trouble and time, just to give an opinion. Why should I put up with all this nonsense and being made to look like the villain of the piece? And all because I have tried to pass on help and advice as it was given to me many years ago. The internet has a lot to answer for.
Woske.

**Panzer 3** · 02-13-2012, 05:07 PM

Hi well that was nice, thank you for the answer, i cant post my Pm,s as i told you i would delete them and have done,
Dave.

**operaman** · 02-13-2012, 05:15 PM

This thread has gotten crazy,I am out of this one

**Paul D** · 02-13-2012, 05:25 PM

Guys we don't need a pm argument brought into the thread and this shouldn't have been done in the first place that's what pm's are for !! I don't want to see anymore of it thanks !

**drmessimer** · 02-13-2012, 05:36 PM

Given the divergent views evident here, I contacted an old friend who is a police forensics handwriting expert with a solid reputation. He is also a collector of famous signatures, specializing in Early Americans, but knowledgeable in other areas. Anyway, he told me that Otto Meissner did have the power of signature throughout his careet as the state Secretary, 1919-45, which is why the Americans brought him before a military tribunal in 1948 on charges of complicitcy and prior knowledge in war crimes based on documents he had signed in his official capacity. So I'm on solid ground there. But here's where Worske comes into his own.

According to my friend, whom I trust completely, "Since way back when" the German government printed all its government form-documents in the thousands. Under Hitler, those form-documents then went to another printer who added his fascimile signature using a distinctive medium blue ink. Over the years, 1933-45, the metal press stamp varied slightly, but remained basically consistent in appearance. Meissner filled in the particulars on the forms and signed his name in the lower right corner. The kicker is that in certain instances, Meissner didn't add his signature. An example of that is the thank you note from Hitler to Goring which I posted earlier in another thread. My friend agreed that in most cases it's impossible to determine the authenticity of a signature by viewing it on a computer screen, one needs to see the original to be sure. But, given the huge numbers of printed Hitler fascimilies that are available, the nearly absolute consistency makes them readily apparent, even on a computer screen.

So, it seems that Woske is right and I was wrong. Dwight

**Paul D** · 02-13-2012, 05:53 PM

Many thanks for the update of further information.

**Woske** · 02-13-2012, 08:04 PM

Dwight,
Thank you for being abstemious in your reply. Just to clarify though, Meissner had authority to sign mundane documents on behalf of Hitler, but using his own signature, not a copy of Hitler's. That has not been in dispute.

Paul,
You need have no fear of disagreements spilling over into arguments in the future. I have decided not to provide any further opinions on signatures on this forum.

Regards,
Woske.

**KSH** · 02-13-2012, 08:08 PM

by Woske

Paul,
You need have no fear of disagreements spilling over into arguments in the future. I have decided not to provide any further opinions on signatures on this forum.

Regards,
Woske.

I am truly sorry to hear that, you have been an asset in this regard for this forum - I will miss your insights severely in the future to come.

Regards,

Kenneth