Hello I would have a read through this thread on the WAF it's rather lengthy but it does an overview of these documents. I'm not certain if these would of been hand signed but it is a rather rare and prestigious award so it s quite plausible to think it would of been hand signed. Now is it legitimate? Is another question and would need better closeup photographs to determine with any amount of certainty. Here as well are photographs of an oakleaves citation I recently had the chance to handle and photograph, imo it was real and hand signed but was written on parchment not paper as these documents look to be so the way the ink saturates the surface may be different if you can get better photos of the signature. Best regards.
Brian
German Eagle Order - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
Comparative images of the WAF example vs OP's notice typed receipient name vs calligraphy on WAF example
That's alot of images to digest. Surely for some the award certificates there are autopen or facsimile signatures (surely on the more commonly seen mutterkreuz documents and the like). To simply say it looks like a genuine period item is one thing, to say it is a period item is another, and to actually have a genuine period hand signed document a whole other ball game indeed. Trust me I ve been burned in this area and now know well enough to proceed with extreme caution. Each piece should be put up and discussed individually, and have multiple eyes examining it. I know it's a generic answer but it's absolutely true. If you are seeking an AH signed document they are out there but buy from a reputable dealer who stands by their items and or a seller who can provide direct provenance not word of mouth. It's a slippery slope. Best regards.
Brian
VSB: Otto Lebrecht Eduard Daniel Meissner was the State Secretary (Staatssekretär) from 1919 to 1945. He served in that capacity under Friedrich Ebert, who gave him the title State Secretary in 1923, Paul von Hindenburg, and Adolf Hitler, who changed the title in 1934 to State Minister of the Rank of a Federal Minister and Chief of the Presidential Chancellery of the Führer and Chancellor. Among his duties Meissner was authorized to sign certain documents on behalf of Hitler. Many, if not most, of Hitler’s signature that appear on awards documents, various other document forms, and in some books, are facsimiles that are often under-signed by Meissner. One of the photos in your last posting, the one above the framed photo of Hitler, has an example of that. I believe that the documents you have are genuine, though I am no expert. But I do have similar awards documents that accompanied medals that went to my father-in-law, Franz Eichberger who was the master chef at the Adlon Hotel from 1935 to 1945, and cooked all the pre-war state dinners in the Schloss Bellevue. Each of those Urkunde has the facsimile Hitler signature with Meissner’s signature below it. I have been told that blank Urkunden were printed in the thousands and provided to Meissner’s office to be properly filled out and signed, using Hitler's facsimile signature. That is a nice collection you have. Dwight
On rare and prestigious awards you need also to consider whether a simple typewriter would be used to fill in the recipient's name and details and not typeset by a printer. It might depend on whether it was early or late in the war but "post 1" example is fairly early. And to my eye that looks "cheap". As Brian said these documents are a minefield and not that difficult to fake.
Anderson has a good point, but on many of these Urkunden the information was typed in, as shown in these two here. The first allows my father-in-law to accept the Royal Yugoslavian Silver Civilian Service Medal in 1942. The second allows him to accept the Royal Bulgarian Silver Service Medal. Both bear Hitler’s facsimile signature, under-written by Otto Meissner in the lower right corner. I agree that collecting these documents is a “mine field,” but my gut feeling is that most, if not all, that you have are genuine. I don’t see the point of counterfeiting a Meissner since they are very common. But, as I said before, I am certainly no expert. Ooops, looks like I did a double upload. Dwight
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