Is this Martin Bormann's signature?

**bikerboyzx6r** · 01-01-2010, 07:22 PM

Hello mate
My 2 pence worth.
"IF" the signature sold originally was confirmed as genuine then I am very happy that both signatures were by the same person so thats good.
The part I have highlighted on the bottom where it flicks left slightly on both is what I was looking for, something that confirms the same hand

Cheers
Dan

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 01-01-2010 07:22 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**hucks216** · 01-01-2010, 07:24 PM

If you plan on getting into the area of Third Reich signature collection then you really need to get your mits on the following two volumes...

Leaders & Personalities Of The Third Reich: Their Biographies, Portraits & Autographs VOL 1 (ISBN:0-912138-27-0) by Charles Hamilton
Leaders & Personalities Of The Third Reich: Their Biographies, Portraits & Autographs VOL 2 (ISBN:0-912138-66-1) by Charles Hamilton

They have the signatures of a huge range of not just Third Reich personalities but also those who influenced those in power (i.e. Richard Wagner, Otto von Bismarck etc). The section on Bormann has 4 examples of his signature. If you plan on forking out alot of money on signatures then you could do alot worse then diverting some of it into getting these two books at least.

schnellmann · 01-01-2010, 09:16 PM

by Paul E

You bought it mate , so if you are happy those sigs are the same then that's all that matters

I took it from your posts that you had bought it but hadn't found anything to compare it with and you were asking for opinions.

Clipped docs ( why would someone do that ?? ) especially with strange phrases on them such as Aufzugsbesitzer always make me suspicious but hey that's just me !!

You have not seen the back of the clipped signature. I have attached it. It looks like a work order or invoice. I am 100% certain the two signatures are from the same guy. NOBODY signs their name exactly alike everytime - ever. I sure don't, and I will bet you don't either. That "Aufzugsbesitzer" does cause me some concern, but I assume it has something to do with the construction of Obersalzberg. Or the Berghof. Maybe a contractor gave Bormann the run around during the construction of the elavator. And Bormann was having fun with him. Who will ever know, without the whole document. I suspect they clipped it because it was a mundane subject. Not only that, but 30-50 years ago it was "The rage" to clip documents. We are smarter now. They weren't worth as much back then, either. One of the words on the back translates to "counterweight" elevators have counterweights, I am sure.

**Justin P** · 01-01-2010, 09:27 PM

It may of been fashionable back then to Clip Signatures, But don't Forget many were clipped back in the 80s enabling them to be Sold on the open market after the BDC Thefts. What is the Berlin Document Center?

**Paul D** · 01-01-2010, 10:11 PM

by schnellmann

You have not seen the back of the clipped signature. I have attached it. It looks like a work order or invoice. I am 100% certain the two signatures are from the same guy. NOBODY signs their name exactly alike everytime - ever. I sure don't, and I will bet you don't either. That "Aufzugsbesitzer" does cause me some concern, but I assume it has something to do with the construction of Obersalzberg. Or the Berghof. Maybe a contractor gave Bormann the run around during the construction of the elavator. And Bormann was having fun with him. Who will ever know, without the whole document. I suspect they clipped it because it was a mundane subject. Not only that, but 30-50 years ago it was "The rage" to clip documents. We are smarter now. They weren't worth as much back then, either. One of the words on the back translates to "counterweight" elevators have counterweights, I am sure.

As i said if you are happy with it that's what is important.

**bikerboyzx6r** · 01-01-2010, 10:19 PM

by Justin

It may of been fashionable back then to Clip Signatures, But don't Forget many were clipped back in the 80s enabling them to be Sold on the open market after the BDC Thefts. What is the Berlin Document Center?

Included in the records still held by the BDC are:
Approximately 11 million NSDAP membership cards created and maintained by party headquarters. This collections is believed to constitute 90 percent of all such cards created by the NSDAP;

Personnel files of SS officers;

Documents pertaining to rank-and-file SS members;
and,
Documents relating to other NSDAP-affiliated organizations, both para-military and civil.

DROOL.... Can I have an hour in there please?

**Woske** · 01-02-2010, 01:46 PM

Schnellmann,
Your clipped signature is 100% authentic. Your signature has been clipped from a printed document concerning the lift up to the Kehlsteinhaus, better known as the Eagle's Nest Teahouse. This lift was part of the construction of the Kehlsteinhaus in 1937 / 1938. Martin Bormann was the administrator of the Obersalzberg restricted area and therefore acted as the recorded owner of the Kehlsteinhaus which included the lift. The original document appears to have been something to do with the functioning of the lift and could have been a maintenance order or invoice.
I agree with the comments on clipping signatures from documents. Who knows what history has been lost for the sake of obtaining a person's signature. Documents signed by Bormann are reasonably common and Obersalzberg items are included in this, but they command slightly higher prices for the Hitler home connection. $750 USD is about right for a standard Bormann signed document with clipped signatures commonly selling for about $300 - $350 USD. Some websites misguidedly offer Bormann autographed material at vastly inflated prices, but these very rarely sell.
A nice original autograph....shame it isn't the entire document.
W.

The lift was built into the Kehlstein Mountain and carried passengers up into the interior of the teahouse above. The lift shaft was 131 meters in depth and the lift interior was lined with solid brass. Here are some photos of the lift:

**colt45** · 01-02-2010, 02:17 PM

looks good, just the loop in the L,, its all new to me

**Paul D** · 01-02-2010, 02:25 PM

Excellent informative post Woske

schnellmann · 01-02-2010, 03:31 PM

Woske - Thanks for the info! I heard this very info on TV recently, as I mentioned before. So I KNEW Bormann had some connection with an elevator. I appreciate your comments about the authenticity of the signature, too. I know my business, and anybody who knows handwriting could tell that both signatures were by the same person...