Fishy MP44 Pouches

**Searinox** · 07-09-2010, 04:15 PM

Thanks for the feedback. But is it possible for earlier style pouches (i.e. these ones), which were rejected early on for the mags falling out too easily, to be marked with a 45 date? That will likely decide the question of the matter.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-09-2010 04:15 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**wwmilitaria** · 07-09-2010, 05:12 PM

Where does it say that one flap pouches are an early design, that was only produced in 43 or 44?
Since much of this stuff was also produced by smaller companies which wouldn't change patterns with the first of january 45, why shouldn't something like that not exist? IMO this thing is supposed to represent a later model pouch.

**Bill T** · 07-09-2010, 05:39 PM

by ian

just a thought but doesnt the waffenampt look a little to crisp and nice ??
going by the other leather parts it seems that that part is is to new and the waff is just to precise and sharp
IMO ian

i agree. Looks like the same crisp reproduction waffenampt that was put on my repro Frog i got for a "bad shape" dress bayo. little skeptical

**Adrian Stevenson** · 07-09-2010, 09:08 PM

by wwmilitaria

Where does it say that one flap pouches are an early design, that was only produced in 43 or 44?
Since much of this stuff was also produced by smaller companies which wouldn't change patterns with the first of january 45, why shouldn't something like that not exist? IMO this thing is supposed to represent a later model pouch.

Have a read of the book on the MP44: "Sturmgewehr! from striking power to firepower"

Cheers, Ade.

**wwmilitaria** · 07-10-2010, 11:10 AM

Thanks for the hint Adrian! So it is an early design we can assume according to Handrich. Still it might be that it is of later production, since apart from being impractical due to losing magazines, it is still much easier to produce.
So I think that the 45 mark might not be impossible and the deciding factor.
Anyhow I am still convinced it is a reproduction for the abovementioned reasons (czech repro appearance).
Did now somebody actually purchase that piece?

**StG45** · 07-18-2010, 02:49 AM

That style pouch is actually for the MKb 42. Photos of originals marked as such do exist if you look hard enough. This one is IDENTICAL in every design detail. Did it ever occur to anyone that this/these pouches were NEVER ISSUED which would account for the appearance? They were designed for a weapon that became obsolete before it was even produced. Good condition = FAKE???? The idea these were re thought as a simple & faster to produce LATE WAR MP44 pouch makes logical sense. Claus Espeholt has a pair of these on his site including the WaA204. He states they are "late war" But then I read a post or I should say a "decree" that ALL of the items on Claus Espeholts site are FAKE. WaA204 can be identfied to gmo Rahm & Kampmann -- Kaiserslautern 1943 ,44,45. They made everything from saddles to helmet chinstraps. I have personally seen items marked as such. I didn't know rusting patterns were controllable. Sure glad it wasnt my job to be painting "D-rings" while the bombs were falling!! Stamping on leather was done by humans not machines. Some are "crisp" some arent. Lets get serious here--- "crisp" = FAKE??? Can anyone enlighten us as to how you make new leather "age" without drying it out or making it smell strange -- or how do you make new leather smell "old"??? Seems a little silly to consider something fake based on that as a factor -- among other factors of course. It would appear that ALL MP44 pouches are FAKE !!!! Its all too often that a "fake" is declared with little or no LOGICAL thought offered behind it . Can anyone actually DOCUMENT the source of these "Czech fakes"???? I have read " opinions " that fake MP44 pouches have been coming out of there for FIFTY years. Where does the material come from? How do you "age" it so well?? Sooner or later (sooner because to quote another "95+ per cent of MP44 pouches on the market are FAKE") the "original" material is going to run out!! I would think if you are in it for the profit and your product is so good as to have so many wondering -- your name is gonna get out sooner or later??? Nobody can be that underground for long!!

**StG45** · 07-18-2010, 06:21 AM

Here are some photos of samples of MKb42 or potential "late war" MP44 pouches. Note one pair are identical except for the rectangle marking to the "fishy" pouch. NO DATE. Note also the "awkward" (correct) positioning of the belt loops. No doubt the one on the bottom left because of the "red stripe" is "FAKE" Czech repro. That "jsd 1943" looks pretty "crisp".

**StG45** · 07-18-2010, 06:46 AM

One more of the belt loops.

**StG45** · 07-18-2010, 07:14 AM

Photos of Mp43 and MP44 pouches "awkward" belt loops. The angles vary -- so??

**wwmilitaria** · 07-18-2010, 11:23 AM

Thanks for the pictures of the pouches.
What kind of document would you like to have? Just have a look at the militaria shows e.g. Ciney, Belgium. There you can get in contact with Czech militaria dealers who may be able to provide these. The top end MP44 pouches are between 400 to 600 EUR a pair. The latest version I have seen is the one with ersatz Leder flanks on the pouch flaps. So they aren't cheap as well. The material is partly original old stock (so it is already "aged") or old stocks similar to the used material. A hint on the tan coloured fabric with red stripe (that was used on the original pouches): matress covers were made of this linen until the 1970s. That is also a good source of fabric for making these pouches.
The material scarcity is also a big problem for the producers as well. When they run out they have to search for months old warehouses for all the fabric and hardware needed.