Ss spoon and canteen

[THUNDERBIRDS1965]

Hi,these pieces were found many years ago in the Rouen area,when German troops try to cross the river Seine in August 1944.What do you think about these pieces,because some french memorabilia collector said me they're some fake(never SS trooper would have engraved this kind of piece!)off course i don't agree their comments.
Have you see these kind of piece before?
Thank you.
Laurent.

[JPhilip]

Hello Laurent,
If you dont agree with people who said they're bad, it means that you're convinced they're good...so why asking for new opinions ?
As long as you're happy with them....
Thanks

[THUNDERBIRDS1965]

Hi JPhilip,i agree your answer,sure they're good,but I would have know if some Memorabilia Collectors have see this kind of piece before?
Thanks.
Laurent.

[Adrian Stevenson]

I have seen designs done on canteens before. Not the same as this, as each were unique. Often done while prisoner of war.

These appear to have some age to them, but often they require a "leap of faith" as it is very easy to add them to original items.

Cheers, Ade.

[harryamb2]

take with caution.

[HPL2008]

Two observations in additon to the ones made above:

Why is the divisional number of the Götz von Berlichingen division referred to by the French "17em" rather than the German "17."?

Also, what is the "P.Z" supposed to mean? This was a Panzergrenadier division, which would have been abbreviated "Pz.Gren.Div.". It seems odd that a soldier should go to the trouble of personalizing his canteen with his name, service and division and then use only one quarter of his formation's designation and put this unnecessary period between the "P" and the "z" to boot.

I have the strong impression that these embellishments were not made by a German speaker.

[SteveR]

Sharp observations by an esteemed colleague.

[Wagriff]

And thus you see the troubles with Trench Art...it's a nightmare to date and authenticate..

[JPhilip]

Two observations in additon to the ones made above:

Why is the divisional number of the Götz von Berlichingen division referred to by the French "17em" rather than the German "17."?

Also, what is the "P.Z" supposed to mean? This was a Panzergrenadier division, which would have been abbreviated "Pz.Gren.Div.". It seems odd that a soldier should go to the trouble of personalizing his canteen with his name, service and division and then use only one quarter of his formation's designation and put this unnecessary period between the "P" and the "z" to boot.

I have the strong impression that these embellishments were not made by a German speaker.

Hello,
Sorry to say but "17em" is also inccorect in french. It is "17e" or "17ième" or even "17eme", but i have never seen this "em"* thing so far....If the person who engraved this canteen was french he was also uneducated.

In my opinion, if the person who engraved this canteen was german with some military knowledge, the "P.Z" should be something like "Pz" instead, no need of a dot between those two letters....concerning the "G.V.B" i think it should have been "GvB" instead.....If the person who engraved this canteen was a soldier from the named division then he didn't know in what kind of unit he served in...but you know, shells, gunfires everywhere, the stress, the fear....you lose your head and mix things....

"I have the strong impression that these embellishments were" made to fool a believer....

* EM or E-M (in capitals) also means Etat-Major, but obviously that's not the case here...
Thanks

[Wagriff]

So...bottom line being....Both pieces are pretty much...