Avoiding flash-points

[Walkwolf]

Seriously though, it does help to give reasons/explainations as to why
something is good or bad. - On the other hand, when an item is
good, sometimes the response is simply a "like" or
'thumbs up' emoticon.........

[drmessimer]

Walkwolf: That's true, but one is unlikely to come off as rude, abrasive, on confrontational by expressing satisfaction or admiration, even with emoticons. But, I have to say again, the issue of interactions that reach the flash point on this Forum are extremely rare, so apparently all of you are doing the right thing. But sometimes the chemistry doesn't work, or the moon and stars aren't quite aligned, and the person making the evaluation gives the questioner a short, blow-off answer. It happens, but it's something we should all try our best to avoid. Thanks for your view and the good laugh. Your timing was perfect. Dwight

[Greenhorn]

If I may add my little comment to this quality thread...

Dwight, thank you for starting the thread. The following is an observation I've made. Some posters do their research and present ample information with their item and they come off as a know-it-all. This will cause others to not post at all. I like doing some research, so I don't look like a dumb@ass, before I post and so I learn something along the way. Problem is, it then appears that you don't really need help, if you can do your own research. I wouldn't post an item for your opinion if I already know everything about it. I prefer to show that some effort went into research but need your best opinion to finish it off. The short responses or nor response could also be because someone isn't very well liked? Sorry if I ever fall into this category. I know I don't know much, but stay open minded to learn from everyone.

Green

[Wagriff]

I, frequently, do this myself, as does Ade and many others -I will give a brief or terse response if a poster is requesting opinions on authenticity or just opinions period. It is never meant as an insult or condescending sneer. If the poster does not agree with my reply(and such is often the case when they have spent considerable money and have found the item from what they feel to have been a reputable source) or they want to know why or more on why I felt so and Ask, they will always be answered. Simple enough. Brief replies save much tedious time and repetitive explanations and typing and usually suffices.

[Danmark]

OK, so I'll play 'Bad Cop' here ..... and say that the other side of the coin is when the poster may be a faker fishing for ideas - cynical I know, but possible. The risk we take until we establish the OP's validity is that we may be telling a fraudster what is wrong with an item and what to fix next time.
Maybe that is another reason some of our members are hesitant in "filling in the details"? Another line I have read is ( and I am paraphrasing here ) " we have done all the hard work and bought all the books, why should we divulge all our secrets to you" ....... I HAVE seen this before ( no names, no pack-drill )

Sure, this response is protectionist - but it is human nature - and this excellent thread goes to show what a mixed bag we ( and ANY group ) consists of...... from 12yr old gung-ho kids to elder statesmen ( hope you don't mind Dwight? ) ...... a real microcosm of semi-anonymous collectors!

Cheers, Dan ( a always helps I find )

[Thanatos]

Thanks for the thread Dwight a very worthy topic mate.
With regards to "fakers" or others of dubious intentions I agree Dan we could be filling in some gaps for them but It's a bit of a "Reds under the bed" thing in the end and we see them everywhere.We must remain vigilant to these people but we must also retain our dignity.
I feel we should not compromise our gentlemanly behaviour and unbiased discussion at any cost.Not even if we take a hit every so often.
It's one of the founding theories of this forum I believe.
Only my opinion.
Cheers
Dave

[Larry C]

Great Topic Dwight,,and an emoticon thumbs up! ;-)!! . Wagriff, Danmark, and Thanatos has summed it up the best although all the others who posted added to the courtesy of being helpful and in giving a detailed description. Another point is that being "condescending" is not easily hidden,, and in human instinct can sense this right away. The last thing the WRF needs is people who are "above thou" so to say. Although they may be loaded with knowledge,,these type of people command a following. The WRF has some of the greatest hobby support in helping others selflessly. It is to be remembered that everyone never came into this hobby with full knowledge and must remember their roots! When I started in this hobby I knew what it was like to be pissed on but arrogantly I was told you were being taught. That was a lesson it itself,,so we try to teach the hard lessons here but without the condescending arrogance. To this day I am for the "underdog". I like the use of the emoticons as it saves on words and a gentle smile can not be seen from the other side of the world or screen of a computer so we insert these feelings,, from saving in endless text They are a useful tool.
Your thread Dwight is also a usefultool in reminding us that we need to stay in check with ourselves as we dont go to the way side of things and forget our positions as members and moderators. What is useful will be used as each term will apply differently for each person teaching. All members and Mods are Teachers and students. In this hobby we barely scratch the surface of the enormity of the Third Reich period as we did not live back during that time or lived through that dark experience. We try to piece together ( as scientists do with fossils from the past ) Scientists and Archaeologists are no different than we are as they have no clue of the past,,but only see it as we do ,, for us it is behind what is written, photos , Vets stories, and artifacts. We dig in the dirt also but we do not have a Doctorate or PHd,, and because of that we tend to be terse and protective. This is not wrong thinking,, and who is it that decides what a persons thinking is wrong,,if we are learning. If we repeat our mistakes continually then we have not learned anything,,and it will take more time.
A point has been brought up about giving detailed descriptions,, and yes i agree as we do sometimes lack in that area...Human failure,,it happens sometimes,,but to give a detailed description on how to replicate an artifact is unwarranted,,and this is where the members will use photos and point out in their description,, the differences seen. Photos are 2 dimensional,, to have it in hand, is priceless and tells more in fact.
Your thread is good medicine Dwight,, and bitter to swallow sometimes,,,, but will only apply separately to each member in their knowledge. Its always a pleasure as your knowledge and thoughts are highly valued here. <---- more emoticons.. Best and sincere regards Larry

[Jerry B]

An interesting thread Dwight and something worth raising. Mostly I try to give detailed info when I am commenting on an item, though when something is obviously wrong (to me and to others it would seem) and a quick search would have shown it to be so, I will sometimes post along the lines of fantasy or garbage as in the case of the Hitler bust stamp.

It can be very easy to appear rude when posting online and I try not to and as someone else mentioned it is possible to appear patronising or a know it all, so to some people whatever you post might be taken the wrong way. Damned if you do and damned if you don't or to paraphrase Lincoln you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

[Gunny Hartmann]

Another potential flash-point i have noticed are interactions between fluent and non fluent English speakers, i've seen that things get lost in translation etc and members seeming to get short tempered, i've commented on one thread " i think so and so means this" using my limited German to translate.
I know there is no easy fix for this type of situation, maybe if we cut down on slang and jargon? A very innocent comment can cause offense, for example while talking to a south American another member said "think nothing of it old bean" which annoyed the guy because "bean" is US derogatory slang for Hispanics. As i said there is no easy answer to this.

[DougB]

I agree with the basic premise of explanation however let me offer you a slightly different perspective. I believe teaching one to fish is better than giving one fish. Having more self reliance and self confidence in one determining fake from real is one way for the hobby to continue to grow and to challenge those that are deceitfully spreading fakes for profit. To that end I posted a thread on an area of my particular interest, SS decals with an explanation on each and basics of what to look for. Ade later promoted it to an article.

So before a poster posts an SS helmet they can some research so as to see if their decal matches any of the known real ones I have posted before asking if it is real. Writing a detailed explanation each time is thus not warranted and also highly repetitive in particular when the same fake SS decal types are posted as nauseum.

Another comment is I will try to preface a reply with "I'm sorry" and call it a reproduction vs fake, but I admit due to a busy lifestyle will be short and to the point at times. However if asked I will always be happy to get into details of my opinion.

Also there are a certain number of posters who do not really want an explanation, they just want to know "is it real and what's it worth", using forum knowledge to hopefully make a fast buck and don't particularly care why it's good or bad, and these "gents" rarely if ever express thier gratitude. There are certain posters who also do not learn thing one from an explanation no matter how detailed and keep posting rudimentary (and worse) fakes over and over and over again, items from terrible sources in the vain hope of finding that $20,000 helmet for $200. I am sorry but I simply do not have time for either of these types of posters and believe "you get out what you put in"

My knowledge is hard won, was expensive (as hell) to obtain, continues to evolve, and I love sharing with other appreciative, interested and courteous collectors anytime. But I will be short and to the point with those that see knowledge here as a means to and end or refuse to learn thing one and use the forum not as whati consider a collector, but as a profiteer or other selfish ends.

So, self education, asking for more details and giving them upon request is part of the dynamic and it must be a two way street.

Cheers
Doug