Blood, Steel,Myth II SS Panzer Korps and the Road to Prochorowka !

[Paul D]

Just got my copy of this book by George Nipe , has anyone else read it yet ?

It features the II SS Panzer Korps at Kursk and having read some of Nipes previous work " Last victory in Russia " the SS Panzer Korps at Kharkov which is as good as you will get from modern authors of the Eastern Front i'm expecting the same level of detail / photos and research.

The Korps at that time was LAH, Das Reich and Totenkopf and already a quick flick through has revealed some great photos !!

[Woolgar]

One for my wish list !

Thanks Paul

NIck

[Paul D]

Morning Nick i also got a copy of Helions new book Waffen SS Armour in Normandy which is a new history of SS Panzer Regt 12 and SS Panzerjager Abt 12 based on original war diaries. Haven't read it yet but the text based on the diaries could be interesting and many documents from Mark Yergers collection are included , unfortunately no new photos are included just well published ones and most of the maps are straight copies of those from Hubert Meyers Divisonal history !!

[nomis]

Hi Paul,

Currently reading Nipe's book and it is very interesting. As you say, good level of detail together with a good array of photos.

Reference books of this detail and quality are expensive, but if you can spare the money, well worth it. Understanding that research and photos are so expensive to access and obtain helps to ease the pain of the outlay on a good quality book.

SF.

[Paul D]

Have finally finished reading the whole book , another brilliantly researched piece of work by Nipe !! The research has finally put to rest some of the myths about Prochorowka being the largest Armoured Battle in History !! Kursk was a Battle i had not read extensively about but like most others knew enough to believe that it was the greatest clash of armour of any modern war and that the armoured Battle at Prochorowka / Psel river corridor was the pinnicle of that fighting.

What i learnt was that with regard to the opening of the Kursk Battle bot the Panzer Regiments of the LAH and Das Reich only had one Abteilung each , in both the I Abt was in the West refitting onto Panthers , the only unit was at almost full strength was SS Panzer Regt 3 Totenkopf .

The whole of II SS Panzer Korps had no Panthers at all , only Panzer III / IV and Befehl Panzers.

The only Panthers available were part of the Oberst Karl Deckers Panzer Brigade 10 which started the fighting with 200 , these numbers were very quickly reduced due to the well known mechanical teething problems, the weather and tactical mistakes in their use whilst attached to the Grossdeutschland PanzerGruppe. None of these Panthers ever fought with the SS Panzer Korps so were never involved at Prochorowka .

On the night of the 11th July 1943 the night before the Prochorowka Battle in the Prochorowka corridor on the 12th July which previous history book have stated involved up to 1500 Tanks from both sides in a head on clash the actual Tank strenght of II SS PanzerKorps from all three units was 232 operational tanks , Befehl Panzers ,Panzer III ,IV's and Tigers from the attached Schwere Kompanies although between LAH and Das Reich only 5 Tigers were operational and with Totenkopf 10. The previous stories of 40 or 50 tigers charging across the Battlefield are untrue.

Most previous works have claimed that the Germans had 700 tanks available including many Tigers and Panthers.

Nipe states that the mythical clash between II SS Panzer Korps and the 5th Guards Tank Army in the Psel river corridor near Prochorowka on 12th July just didn't take place !! Essentially the Battle that day was between the 5th Guards Tank Army and the 63 Tanks of the LSSAH that were still operational around Hill 226.6 and Hill 252.2 !!

The Das Reich Panzer Regiment was awaiting the order to attack to the south and east of the front not Northwards towards Prochorowka and the Totenkopf Panzer Regiment was in action in the Psel Bridgehead and the Psel river bend west and south west of the Prochorowka / Psel River corridor so it is clear that neither were involved in the mythical Battle that day.

The Panzers of the LAH Panzer Regiment were in fact just breakfasting and coming to a state of readiness around Hill 252.2 when reports came in that T34's were advancing towards the crucial hill so again the myth of the great headlong armoured charge against each other just didn't take place.The Panzers deployed and engaged the Soviet Tank Corps that employed around 500 Tanks in the Battle , the crux of which is that the the 5th Guards Army was fought to a standstill and suffered massive losses , at least 100 tanks around the hill alone by the 63 tanks including only 4 Tigers of the LAH !!

The great myth of the Battle seems to have been started by Rotmistrov commander of the 5th Guards Tank army and other senior Soviet commanders to cover up what was essentially a major defeat against a heavily outnumbered enemy , hence his reports to Stalin of hundreds and hundreds of German tanks including massed Tigers and Panthers charging headlong into his Army .

As only the Soviet records on the Battle were available Paul Carells Scorched Earth quoted these reports and a number of well known western authors of books on the Battle , Geoffrey Jukes , John Erickson, Alan Clarke , Janusz Peikaliwicz , Glantz etc etc have all followed along behind qouting much the same figurs and scenario without much to their chagrin doing any research into the matter themselves even though many other German and other records etc are now available !!

If you only ever read one book about the Kursk Battles especially the southern fron then this has to be it.

regards

Paul

[HPL2008]

If you only ever read one book about the Kursk Battles especially the southern fron then this has to be it.

Agreed; it is very good indeed.

Allow me to add that, although the book is a very serious, in-depth study, George Nipe does an especially fine job at explaining the progression of the strategic and tactical developments in such a way that they are clear and understandable to laymen. (Which I am, after all; I might know a thing or two about World War 2, but would never claim to have any proper knowledge of military science.)

The useful maps and especially the many well-selected period photographs and statements from participants in the events also help to make the events "come to life" for the reader.

[Paul D]

Agreed; it is very good indeed.

Allow me to add that, although the book is a very serious, in-depth study, George Nipe does an especially fine job at explaining the progression of the strategic and tactical developments in such a way that they are clear and understandable to laymen. (Which I am, after all; I might know a thing or two about World War 2, but would never claim to have any proper knowledge of military science.)

The useful maps and especially the many well-selected period photographs and statements from participants in the events also help to make the events "come to life" for the reader.

Totally agree Andreas Nipe has a great style and for me even puts over the stats and facts and figures in an interesting way , i very much enjoyed Last Victory in Russia as well and was expecting great things from this book and he delivered !! His interviews with veterans particulary Rudolf von Ribbontrop and other members of 6 Kompanie , SS Panzer Regt 1 regarding the 12th July certainly made that day come to life.

His work has certainly left a few of the previous authors of books on this subject with egg on their face and a charge of some extremley poor historical research , in the search of truth it seems many of them just followed the Soviet misinformation produced at the time and after the war which doesn't give them much credit i'm afraid !!

The admissions of Soviet historian and veteran of the Battle Grigoryi Kolotunov in 1996 were certainly very telling !

[Adrian Stevenson]

Sounds excellent, I will have to buy it.

Cheers, Ade.

[Paul D]

It's an excellent piece of work Ade with superb maps and photos , well worth the high price !!

[M422A1]

After reading these posts, I ordered it last night. $47.25 with free shipping from Amazon. I'm looking forward to reading it.

Mike