Craig Gottliebs Auction Scam Disclaimer

**K.Lindblom** · 03-02-2011, 06:18 PM

Shill bidding CGM-1.jpg CGM-2.jpg CGM-4.jpg CGM-3.jpg

This is probably one of the largest auction scams that I have personally seen where a back end disclaimer was set to allow the bidding on auctions by the auctioneer/owner on his own items and the items of consignors without setting normal reserves and advertising low starting bids and no reserves.

Watch your pockets guys as the guy your bidding against may very well be the owner of the item or auction!.

When this went out it was immediately changed and the snapshots specifically line #6 is a google cache page.

**bikerboyzx6r** · 03-02-2011, 07:31 PM

Unreal!!! Well, we all know it goes on on eBay but not as blatant as this!!!

**Adrian** · 03-03-2011, 01:05 AM

There just seems to be a cloud of controversy that follows this guy around. I've never had any dealings with him but from what I've read over the years I really don't want to. I think there was an SS ring scandal a while ago if I remember correctly. On top of that, his prices are absolutely unrealistic to the point of being absurd.

**Uberman** · 03-03-2011, 01:52 AM

Guys, hate to let the secret out, but almost ALL auction houses can and DO bid on their own items.

This is how the industry works. I know it seems unfair, but people don't go to work every day in this profession to lose $, either their own or their consignors.

**K.Lindblom** · 03-03-2011, 03:13 AM

by Uberman

Guys, hate to let the secret out, but almost ALL auction houses can and DO bid on their own items.

This is how the industry works. I know it seems unfair, but people don't go to work every day in this profession to lose $, either their own or their consignors.

The auction is advertised with low starters and no reserves, then the terms and conditions stated the above, that is deception in a regulated industry and subject to law, whether it happens or not is not the question. The question is bidding against your own clients when you advertise no reserves on the front end. Now that it has been changed bidding by principles would be illegal. it states that they will bid on their own items and the items of consignors, that means there is a reserve and probably fees you do not see.

In the real world that is jail time if it is done with the altered terms.

K

**Uberman** · 03-03-2011, 03:36 AM

by K.Lindblom

The auction is advertised with low starters and no reserves, then the terms and conditions stated the above, that is deception in a regulated industry and subject to law, whether it happens or not is not the question. The question is bidding against your own clients when you advertise no reserves on the front end. Now that it has been changed bidding by principles would be illegal. it states that they will bid on their own items and the items of consignors, that means there is a reserve and probably fees you do not see.

In the real world that is jail time if it is done with the altered terms.

K

WRONG.

Please state actual laws before claiming something is illegal, especially in an industry you are obviously not familiar with.

Heck, check Heritage, they are one of the biggest when it comes to collectibles and they have the same policy. As long as it's stated, it's legal.

I know a bunch of people enjoy having a pissing contest with Gottlieb and take any chance to do so. But don't post incorrect information just because you and him had a disagreement in the sandbox over who gets to play with the red firetruck on that particular recess.

Reserves and having the auction house representative on the floor bidding if needed are two DIFFERENT THINGS. I'm sure you have your auctioneers license and years of experience working for auction houses all over the country to rely on when claiming to be a legal expert, right?

**K.Lindblom** · 03-03-2011, 03:53 AM

You do your own homework, I am not here for you. If it was not a big deal why was it immediately removed when the principle saw the exposure? is that because he wanted people to know he was bidding against his own clients?.

Ill do more on this later and obviously you feel this is an honest practice.

K

**Glenn66** · 03-03-2011, 06:40 AM

So much for a free market!

If any item doesn't bid up to it's supposed value then it obviously isn't worth what the owner thinks. Legal, disclosed or not, it's dishonesty in my book and falls into the same category as insider trading.

**Uberman** · 03-03-2011, 07:49 AM

by K.Lindblom

You do your own homework, I am not here for you.

That statement pretty much sums up my point about what you were saying. You have no clue and can't back it up with actual facts, other then with an opinion.

I have no idea why he did it. I don't know him outside of saying hello at a show and reading 50000 pages of criticism over his latest attire or how he sips his coffee (or tea). At this point he probably owes me a drink over defending him though.

It's honest if he states it. Check with other auction houses "fine print" and you'll find the same thing pretty much everywhere where the auction owns the items.

I'm not here to debate the finer point of everyone's view of business ethics guys, I'm simply informing the uninformed of HOW auctions work. If it's stated in the fine print then bam, it's legal to do so. I really don't have an opinion of whether it is right or wrong, that's a choice that depends on the individual's positions. I don't own or run an auction house, so it's rather irrelevant to me.

As for "free market, Glenn, this is a prime example of a FUNCTIONING free market. the seller is able to do what they want and the buyer can agree to their policies or take their $ elsewhere. And dishonesty has nothing to do with it if one is upfront about it. I'm telling you, this is how auctions have worked since the dawn of time! And very different from insider trading, as the house is buying form itself, not a 3rd party. And for the sake of playing the devil's advocate, insider trading would be the ultimate "Free Market", allowing individuals to make completely unregulated business transaction

As far as item not selling for what the owner thinks it's worth, that's not true either. The auction profit margin lives and dies by WHO is there bidding. if too many of the people interested in the item and know it's value are not there, item goes for a fraction of the cost. This is why deals are more easily had at auctions where the items are 100% consigned, not outright owned by the auction house. not to say that some consignment-only auction the houses won't be bidding for themselves either. Sometimes, the item goes for so low that the HOUSE will purchase it in their own auction to resell at a profit later, because the clients were not there to bid on it.

And there are major risks in buying your own items. If you do it often, people will see the same items selling and reappearing back up. Auction buyers are a savvy crowd and know the inventory of their preferred buying ground well, so if an item keeps selling and then being offered a short time afterward, it would sink the house VERY fast. CG might have realized that (should have hired me to run his auction division so this kind of stuff did not occur in the first place, HINT HINT CRAIG) and removed that whole issue altogether. Plus, if the house buys it's own item, it STILL has to pay the commission fees AS a buyer and pay out to the consignor, so it's a real crapshoot to do it except in dire circumstances.

There's the end of today's lesson. And yes, I still buy through auction houses myself.

**Bill T** · 03-03-2011, 08:28 AM

wow, thanks for sharing that Uberman. Ive learned alot of things I didnt know about Auction houses and there schemes. I will have to keep an eye out at next weeks auction. I see alot of the same people at the auction I attend. so is it possible that most likely one or more people are working for the house and pretending to be private bidders? I guess I understand why it happens now, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.