A few things.

[Adrian]

As many will have noticed there is an incredible negative fallout from the National Geographic endorsed programme - Nazi War Diggers.

Unfortunately this fall out has come to this forum and has apparently affected many members.

I wish to make it perfectly clear that this forum in no way supported or condoned this programme, the filming of, the methodology nor the persons involved. In fact the first we knew about it was at the same time everyone else knew. As many know, a member of the forum staff was involved and had been sworn to secrecy over the details of the programme which is why it has been just as much a surprise to us as anyone else.

For a long time now, this forum has adopted a policy of not discussing another member of the show - Craig Gottlieb. This is because we do not wish to be associated with him or his well publicised underhand dealings and scams. It is also well known that threads relating to Gottleib are closed down because we consider it to be a complete waste of bandwidth to entertain constant internet lynch mobs for this character.
The guy is almost universally hated and speaking for myself, the reason I no longer participate on WAF due to their previous support and defence of him.
He is now banned from there and for the record, he has been banned from here too, on more than one occasion.

As Gottlieb is a member of the digging team in the programme it has left us with a situation whereby due to the policy of not discussing him, if we do so, it will go against the forum principles of not giving his name space here.
Despite the obviously poorly managed and released show, the character everyone has homed in on is Craig Gottlieb and I wonder if, had he not been involved, would this show receive as much criticism or generate so much discussion?

In spite of the fact one of the members here and a member of the Moderating team is involved, the forum is not engaged in a cover up to this story.
So far, no thread has been started here whereby the member opening it has been able to offer anything different to the countless other places on the internet and social media. In fact threads have been deleted because it is plainly obvious that people just want to jump on the band wagon of hatred and bile directed at the show. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing new. If you want to spout off against Gottlieb, the other members and the dodgy archaeological processes, please do so in those other places.

This forum has been about many things but definitely not to indulge in the gutter lynch mob mentality over a subject I'll wager 95% of the members here know anything about and are just reacting to the hyped up way the show has been released. That is why so far the threads on the subject have been closed or deleted.
If anyone can start an educated and sensible discussion on the subject then feel free, but don't for one second think the forum will be hosting a Facebook style location to make uniformed character assassinations on people you know nothing about or to post images from the dig that portray our hobby in a poor light.

It is also worth bearing in mind that as many of our collectables come from people who are dead, any direct link to this forum will bring unwanted attention from those circling vultures - including those who apparently already reside here and we, as collectors all have the potential to become unsolicited victims in the sorry saga that has enveloped militaria collecting. Internet warriors for justice and good won't see this forum as a place to discuss historical artifacts, we potentially could all be tarred with the same brush because of what we collect. Think about the bigger picture for a change and think before you type.

To finish off, I should also inform you that the member here who was involved with the show has received death threats, threats to his home and family which have been perpetuated by those people whose mentality makes them rush to the scene of an accident for a good look.
In this situation, would any of you be rushing to the keyboard to defend yourself if it was you, your home and family knowing that anything you say will immediately be taken out of context by those vultures?

At the end of the day and forgetting any of the retrieval methods we should also bear in mind that a significant number of lost family members have been returned to their homelands and been given proper burials.

One last thing and to save me typing out the same message to everyone, to all those who have sent accusatory messages to me, and probably other Moderators here, thank you for your name calling, your lack of understanding and for touting my name on other forums as someone involved with a cover up. I guess it shows you up in your true colours and if you wish to be involved with a bottom feeding frenzy of hysteria on this issue, please go to these other places on the internet and indulge yourselves on the rotting carcasses you seemingly thrive on.
Get a life and grow up.

[Jerry B]

As I hope many here will know I instantly raised concerns about aspects of the now cancelled show and how it was ill thought out and poorly considered.

The use of a sensationalist title as a means of attracting viewers was a mistake as was the use of a "face" from US TV.

The poorly presented advertising for the show was the worst I can remember seeing, the video clip and the presenters bio's were extremely badly done.

Though to me the methodology used to excavate the human remains was shockingly bad, following research it seems that the local team that advised and monitored that aspect of the show from the first episode, was in fact representative of the methods typically used by that group in that country. A lack of understanding of what goes on in such areas by many of us is to a certain extent our own fault and in that respect the Nat Geo team were probably foolish rather than deliberately disrespectful, though some aspects of the show and the actions of the dig team that were shown were at best Naive and very poorly thought out as to what the public response would be and will be considered by many as extremely distasteful and that they will have to live with, as I cannot and will not offer any excuses for some of the things they did.

The later episodes were filmed in a different country and the local experts use a methodology there that is more in keeping with that used in most other countries and if those digs had been aired in the advertising video there would have been less to have criticised and perhaps apart from the first two negative aspects (the title and choice of presenter) that instantly generated condemnation, some of it might not have occurred.

Unknown to most members here, a lot of heated discussion has taken place behind the scenes and many of us were at a loss as how to properly respond to this and some of us have contemplated leaving because of this and that the silence was being seen as a cover up or even worse as condoning what was shown, neither of which is true.

At least one good thing has come out of the video, and that was to raise awareness of the activities of some groups digging in such areas and that some of them have no professional people working with them and advising or training them on how it should be done to modern acceptable standards. The other issue is that there is no money available for such work to be undertaken, though I doubt in many cases that such work would be allowed to proceed without a clearly perceived thread from development in most of the rest of the world.

[SteveR]

I think death threats are complete and total bullshit.

If you don't have the balls to walk up to a man and challenge him to his face then you are just a punk pussy not worthy of considering your self as a man. Just a gutless coward that is nothing but a bag of hot air that should go slap your mama for having idiot kids.

[Ben Evans]

What makes me laugh is some members who have had a lot on support on this forum are now off flapping their gums about nothing they they nowt about, just following the crowd, quite pathetic really!

[big ned]

" One last thing and to save me typing out the same message to everyone, to all those who have sent accusatory messages to me, and probably other Moderators here, thank you for your name calling, your lack of understanding and for touting my name on other forums as someone involved with a cover up. I guess it shows you up in your true colours and if you wish to be involved with a bottom feeding frenzy of hysteria on this issue, please go to these other places on the internet and indulge yourselves on the rotting carcasses you seemingly thrive on.
Get a life and grow up."

Well said Adrian, I applaud your courage in starting this thread, as i'm sure do other members here who abhor the cowardly and mindless diatribes of certain mouth breathing, bombastic cretins that seem to have invaded the forum over recent months. The pleasant atmosphere for which this forum has been cited by many here in the past has recently, in the last few months, soured noticably.

The behaviour of some, including senior collectors in their respective fields have not only let themselves down, but cast a shadow over the forum that has lingered and only served to allow others here think that it's O.K. to follow their lead.

Would it be considered to be unfair to name and shame these 'members' before permanently banning them? I see no reason why it should be allowed that people here who choose to berate moderators or other members and actively seek to defame them and this wonderful forum on other fora should not be banned immediately. What use are they here if that's the way they choose to act? Why should the majority of members who enjoy and care for this forum put up with a minority of two faced back stabbing individuals who seem bent on slagging it off to people on other sites? Do we need these people? In my opinion, NO WE DO NOT.

If others here agree with me then let's hear it, let's cut out this cancer that is these disingenuous and viputerative dirtbags once and for all, and try and get back to something that resembles what this happy, friendly, enjoyable and knowledgable place was before it starts to fall deep into the abyss on which it is teetering, and that has ruined WAF and many other forums to the extent that people are afraid to post for fear of what name calling and bullying they may endure.

This is not what War Relics Forum is about, firm action must be taken now if this forum is to regain what it has had, but is increasingly in danger of losing. And the above reasons described by Adrian makes a damn good place to start....Let's do it.

Ned.

[harryamb2]

well said all of you's.

[aurelius180]

One of the benefits of this forum has been the ability of the moderators to "moderate" the forum. I think you do a tremendous job allowing for the conversation and sharing of knowledge while muting the effects of those who are only looking to start trouble. This should be a place of friendly discourse.

For those willing to search the forum or ask the right questions, it's quite easy to discern who are the less than reputable dealers/members in this collecting community. There is no need to get into the smearing of characters on here and the moderators should be applauded for not letting this fine forum stoop to that level.

Sending threats via email serves no purpose other than to make you look like a fool.

[Aleksander P]

I agree with the above comments.

I did post about CB in a hateful manner and I thus apologize for it. I should have controlled my emotions. Like Ned kindly pointed out to me, hate spewing like that gets us nowhere. One of the reasons that I joined this forum, was because of it's friendly and professional atmosphere and I never want that to change.

In now way death threats or any kind of threats are justifiable. I hope the people who have sent those man up and realize what kind of damage a thing like that can do, especially in a case where the target has a family.

[Gary J]

The real thing that annoys me about this whole crock of Sh*te, is after the fact, nobody involved (NG, promoters, producers, diggers) have even tried to make an attempt to apologize in some way...... Anyway .....

Those remains were dragged out of the ground !
It was wrong, so VERY wrong.

[CBH]

I have always been a proud member of this forum , and will continue to be one . I've always found it a friendly place to ask questions and answer some when I can . And when my thread " American Diggers fake TV " became a place to attack forum members , I was glad to see it closed , if I had have seen that sooner I would have closed it myself . Lets hope this is behind us now , but if people feel some members should be banded , I can only agree .

Cheers Chris