A few things.

[BOB COLEMAN]

It will be interesting to see if any of the negative "pot stirrers" have the intestinal fortitude to post on this thread. For those who collect relics, do you close your eyes to where and under what circumstances these items are found? I have no horse in this race except that I am very disillusioned to hear of death threats to anyone. All of this has been out of character with this place.

[Adrian]

Thank you to everyone who has replied here to voice their support and understanding of this issue.

Moderating and making the right decisions at the right time is not always easy and because there are so many different characters from so many different backgrounds here is is not easy to please all of the people all of the time.

Sometimes, as in this instance, things are thrown at you for which you have no contingency plans, cannot foresee and cannot prepare for. The reaction to the threads being started was not a cover up or a denial of anything but simply a fire fighting exercise while the matter was discussed and a way forward was agreed. This has obviously been misinterpreted by several members here and relayed to other forums where the topic has been allowed to run and a negative impact been felt by this forum.

No matter what you think of the way things have been dealt with thus far, the forum will always continue to believe that train wreck threads with no purpose other than to defame individuals and indulge members in a small minded, back stabbing frenzy of perceived outrage on a matter which, lets be honest, not many have any idea about will not be allowed to run. It is that simple.

The decision is perhaps vindicated by the fact that in my opening post on this thread, I invited members, if they thought they could, to started a well reasoned, well informed and constructive debate on the programme in question.

I note, looking at the names of those who have read this thread and seeing some who have contacted me about denying their right to voice their opinion, not one of those has taken the opportunity to start such a thread which goes some way to proving they were only interested in a self indulgent gutter thread where they could gleefully participate in chewing on the remains of those involved.

As several people have stated, they have chosen to leave this forum and go to pastures new where, I guess, those sort of threads are tolerated and they will feel more at home.
A good analogy is like wheat being separated from the chaff. The chaff has been blown far and wide and will come to rest in the crevices and corners of this internet world while the wheat will stay here and continue to grow and make the forum and it's principles stronger.

To clear up one other thing that has come to light this last week, just because you contribute to the forum and keep it running, it does not mean you run the forum. Your contributions are used to keep the forum running and as such you don't see the adverts that non contributing members see which are there to fund the forum.
Your money does not entitle you to start any old thread you like, especially if it is on a subject that will cause so much trouble. Your freedom of speech does not relate to the amount of money you contribute and in fact, several of my critics this week have been from non paying members. Go figure.

The Moderators are not here simply to pi$$ you off. They are here to keep the forum running smoothly, to remove the trash and keep the basic and fundamental principles in place. It can be a thankless task for very little reward. You very rarely get thanks for a good job but you sure as hell get it in the neck if you upset someone.

I refer back to Ned's post, #5, points I and many others fully endorse. I will not name and shame anyone here. You know who you are and I know who you are and I will not ban anyone off the back of this but just take a good hard look at yourselves.

If you are one of those two faced, back stabbing individuals who enjoy slagging people off, reporting to other forums on the goings on here, then please leave, you will not be missed and you will not bring this forum down in the same way as many others. Go and find your niche and stay there. Just as many people will find their place here and we can get back to the pleasant and friendly environment we once enjoyed and get back to discussing collecting militaria and not waste so much time dealing with the likes of you.

The response to the controversial matter is in hand and will become apparent shortly. When it does, a line will be drawn under the whole business and we will look to the way forward.

[Scout]

Well said, Adrian.
And IMO it needed to be said.
It coincides well with my recent other comment else where on the forum about the potential for a witch hunt, which seemingly has already erupted elsewhere.
For the good of the forum, the OP was timely and needed.
Very good to clear up, that the forum in no way condone 'he who shall not be named' and in fact, that there has been, is now a clear cut official forum opinion of this man and that the policy of not offering bandwidth to discussion of said person has been in situ long before the show presently being discussed.
This again also is a factor in the forum staff putting a lid on the matter, as I also mentioned else where.
Until now, the discussion of the show flared up ....and then petered out due to forum staff understandably putting a lid on it.
Further more, this forum is caught between a rock and a hard place in this debacle for obvious reasons and needs to move on for the good of the forum, which if it needs reminding, is a relic forum for the objective non-political discussion of such.
We have once had a flare of tempers and a subsequent reigning in of the 'Discussions' forum.
This also sort of petered out and fortunately, there can still be a wide array of subjects posted in 'Discussions,' which is sort of an oasis for stuff to be debated amongst friends.
This has always been and STILL is one of the best forums about with great people - both forum members and staff - apart from a very few loons.
I for one applaud the mostly balanced staff efforts. I appreciate, that they must have been busy lately and they have my sympathy, as they are as mentioned, caught between a rock and a hard place.
Death threaths to our own fellow forum member and moderater involved with the aforementioned show is despicable and there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for that. No excuse either for dragging Adrian's name through the mud. I know both of these persons only from the forum and have not had dealings with them elsewhere and precious little here, but I consider them both honourable persons judging from the way, they act towards other forum members and myself here on the forum.
Both has my vote of confidence as does the staff here.
Time to close ranks, look out for forum and move on, gents.

[Jo Rivett]

It will be interesting to see if any of the negative "pot stirrers" have the intestinal fortitude to post on this thread.

What pot are you talking about Bob? because there are a few "on the cook" at the moment. There are pots in scientific circles, academic pots, pots in archaeological circles, pots in the metal detecting fields, many pots on various blogs related to general collecting/hobbies, and then there are the few pots on various forums. If you mean the "pot" on the waf forum, then i supposed you are referring to me. seeing as i posted a few times, and unfortunately did not comment in a way - based on the contents of this thread - that seems favorable for the majority of members here, i can only deduce that you are referring to me? The question mark is because so far no names have been mentioned on this thread, leaving the door wide open to "WHO WAS IT" Obviously my user name on waf is the same as it is on here, therefore anyone who goes looking for; backstabbing so-n-so`s who only have negative things to say... will certainly see my name put 2 and 2 together, and come up with 387 - Like most blogs about this are doing right now.

We have never had anything go viral in our hobby before, and probably dont know how to deal with it correctly either. (Deal with it in a manner that keeps all parties/members/forums happy.) The actors involved in this show obviously dont either, but i would suggest that any "threats" or "serious nonsense" be handled in the correct way, between the parties involved, lawyers etc.. and not be just be left open to a "WHO WAS IT" on a forum thread, causing more speculation, in fact doing exactly what the other blogs are now. Small shards of info, taken from all over the place, with no regard to factual correctness, or a proper understanding of why a certain person says/posts/blogs what he does/did... that, is MEDIA. Media does not care about reputations, ruining careers, or even getting the facts clear from the start. Media cares about hype and profit, and nobody will stand in the way of that. The same media that "could" have taken 3 apparently under qualified individuals, and shot them to stardom in a new TV series, is the same media that can break them in half. That is the way it works, we just dont get to see personalities crash and burn as quickly as we have in this case. As well as many of us being personally acquainted with some, or all of these actors, or TV presenters, or History Hunters, or Metal Detecting experts or whatever they are calling themselves on their individual twitter/blog/websites.

Viral - the first 200 odd hits on Google when you type in NAZI WAR DIGGERS have little if anything to do with any Militaria forum. There are, and have always been, hateful and destructive individuals in this hobby, we all know that, some of us better than others, thats just a fact that i am sure all forums and professions have. There are though, people who have been trying for a long time now, to put an end to these destructive and hateful individuals, hence possibly the kicking stampede that ensued after this show was first announced, as one of the individuals involved, in fact the ring leader, is one of these destructive and hateful individuals.

My credits are gone and to be honest, so is any hope for this hobby that i had. My enthusiasm to share, post, lecture, learn, debate, squabble and invest time helping/sharing has gone too.

[Erno]

My credits are gone and to be honest, so is any hope for this hobby that i had. My enthusiasm to share, post, lecture, learn, debate, squabble and invest time helping/sharing has gone too.

I agree up to this last part! Only decent, interested people can make the hobby worthwhile, or at least worth talking about on fora. Most hobbies are now tainted by lowlifes like 'Godlove.' The fact is, though, that bloodsuckers are in it for the money whilst most people who post here aren't. Such negative influences don't keep the hobby afloat; they aren't the 'heart' of it. They only exist on the peripheries.

But there is something to be said about the fact that a moderator was involved in the program. If it were a normal member, would he have been banned? If so, the same should be done to the moderator. Gottlieb is blackballed, so should his cohorts suffer the same fate here?

Either way, anyone making death threats should be ashamed. That makes everyone look bad, even though I suspect that such death threats are rare.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying that the moderator should be banned, unless that would be the fate of a normal member in the same circumstances.

[StefanM]

You will see that SteveT is no longer a moderator on Battlefield Archaeology, his current status on WRF is that of registered member. As is often heard on TV news, "It has been a difficult time and there are lessons to be learned and we will do our utmost ensure that a similar situation does not arise in the future."

[wizardman]

Some perspective is needed, next week no one in the media or the public will know or care about this..Its just sad to us the collectors that it has affected our community, and no matter what side of the trench you sit on we should all remain friends and move on..as no one or very few could have foreseen this situation..we all know how things get sensationalized

[relicz]

I absolutely agree that death threats and vitriolic personal messages are beyond the pale and should not be tolerated. But I also find it curious that reasonable (and I did say "reasonable") discussion on other forums is being lambasted and criminalized as any effort to do so here was deleted and suppressed without any "reasonable" explanation. Lets face it, this issue awoke much passion in this community and people felt the need to discuss and opine about it. The initial heavy handedness by some moderators drove some discussion elsewhere.

In retrospect, I believe much can and will be learned from this, but lets hope all viewpoints can be openly considered because "mobs" were formed on all sides of this issue. Some seem to be still forming and mores the pity.

[StefanM]

John, as I said, there are lessons to be learned and will be learned from how this issue was addressed by us, the moderators and administrators of WRF.

[Jerry B]

None here stated that this mess should not be discussed on other forums and any who chose to do so are not being attacked here, but when some of those, and I say some, chose to post out of context images on other forums and try to cast this forum in a bad light, then perhaps action should be taken against them. I mentioned earlier that one member from here posted on another forum a twisted version of events, without regard to the possible consequences of that action and without knowledge of what was going on behind the scenes on this forum.

It was not deemed wise to take a kneejerk reaction to what happened and much thought was given to the issue before this statement was made.

Making comments elsewhere was fine, but spreading lies and misinformation was not. I only noted one member from here who chose to take that course of action and I have yet to see him comment on this thread. He is reading this thread know, so at least he knows who he is and what I think of his actions.

I absolutely agree that death threats and vitriolic personal messages are beyond the pale and should not be tolerated. But I also find it curious that reasonable (and I did say "reasonable") discussion on other forums is being lambasted and criminalized as any effort to do so here was deleted and suppressed without any "reasonable" explanation. Lets face it, this issue awoke much passion in this community and people felt the need to discuss and opine about it. The initial heavy handedness by some moderators drove some discussion elsewhere.

In retrospect, I believe much can and will be learned from this, but lets hope all viewpoints can openly be considered because "mobs" were formed on all sides of this issue. Some seem to be still forming and mores the pity.