Legal action when exposing fakes for sale.

[tempelhof]

like davejb. he's a big time defamer. hahahha!

just kidding... no need to bring on the attorneys!

[Paul D]

A real " Loss of bottle " by them , looks like some barrack room lawyer is amonst them !!

[big ned]

If you are accused of defaming someone's character the obvious defence would be that the statement was true. It can also be a defence to say that the statement was fair comment and in the public interest or simply that the words used would not be likely to lower someone's reputation in the minds of right thinking people. There are lots of other more technical defences.

Let's say for arguments sake Pawel Nowak decides he has been defamed by Davejb. To get recompense of a financial nature he would have to sue Dave through the British judicial system, not his own country's, as there is no law of extradition for cases of defamation of character. Therefore he would be required to make an appearance in court in the U.K. He will have to prove that he is a person of good standing and that the accusations made by Davejb are false and/or malicious, and have damaged his character and/or business.

This is all extremely expensive, and I mean really expensive!! Think along the lines of Beresovsky v Abramovich and it'll give you an idea, albeit on a smaller scale.

So, I think it's safe to say that it'll never happen. Some spiv of a fake peddler taking a collector to court for libel over an item that they are selling that is an obvious fake or just does not exist, at great personal expense, under the laws of another country, when they will have to face serious cross examination, with a very high probability that they will lose means........Forget it!

P.S. Nowak, if you are reading this, you are a c***!!!

[harryamb2]

as I have said before the dealers get out is quote " to the best of my knowledge the item was original".he has not said he is a expert.there you go chaps.harry

[Larry C]

If there is anything that sticks in my "crawl",, is "Bulls**t like this!!! anything for that a poor minded person can only think of to make a quick buck,, is lower than a thief. At least a thief has focus. There is nothing to prove! Look how many times certain dealers have been accused of selling fakes and so forth,, but yet they still keep moving and keep selling. One person with one item is a losing cause. Nothing will be come of this as Ned says,,, it will be very expensive especially for the accuser. Since when all of a sudden did anyone care about TR items as before we cant stop the thieves who are scamming everyone else,,, Now this idiot thinks the authorities will step in to protect TR items...LOL...I think not,,, as the authorities will be under the spot light more so and they will be accused of being sympathetic to the NSDAP. ...Haaa!! Not going to happen,,, countries have more to worry about right now with economies and peoples lives. They would have more to answer for in many ways for helping this person or persons and being accused of supporting TR collectibles. These malcontents can shove it!!.................IMO!!!

[tempelhof]

in the US, i'm pretty sure this Pawel Novak guy wouldn't have to prove anything. it would be all on the person being sued to prove what he said is true. in this case, if you said the guy was purposefully selling fakes to defraud, and he sues you, you would have to prove that he KNEW the item was fake and was selling it as authentic. this could be extraordinarily difficult to do as are all cases where you are required to prove what is going on inside someone's head. basically, your defense would fail unless you had an e-mail, witness or other communication or statement that shows that he himself admitted knowing the items were fake before he sold them and misrepresented them to sell them.

this, i think, is what makes the defense a little challenging. but again, i'm no lawyer. but i believe this is how you shake a defamation or libel rap in a specific instance of accusing someone of fraud by selling fakes. selling fakes is not illegal. selling fakes and making a statement to make the sale that it is real is not illegal either. however, selling a fake, saying it is real, even as you KNOW it is fake... that is illegal. but the catch is, you have to prove they knew while making statements that indicate they did not. and that sometimes requires being able to read their mind. unless, of course, you're lucky enough to have his own statement saying that he did now an item was fake all along.

[tempelhof]

what's even worse is you don't need any money. you just need a lawyer who senses that the person who committed the libel has a lot of money and that the lawyer can convince the court that serious damage was done to his "business". then the lawyer can present the size of this business and if all the numbers are big enough, the lawyer will do the whole thing for free and simply take a cut when a judgement is made.

i think it's also safe to say that not a lot of american juries are gonna be chocked up at the notion that i got burned buying a swastika.

this kind of thing is pretty trashy. these kinds of lawsuits. but you know... welcome to America.

[tempelhof]

basically if presenting fakes as real and selling them were illegal, there wouldn't be an art dealer, antique dealer or militaria dealer left in the country. because eventually, they'd all make a mistake and sell a fake unknowingly as real. so there's the catch in there: you have to prove they themselves KNEW.

and that's tougher than it sounds sometimes.

[tempelhof]

Pawel Novak? He'll probably NEVER go away.

there could be a nuclear war and he'd come crawling out of under a smoking rock with a dirty hand full of fakes. and out there somewhere on the post apocalyptic landscape, he'd find people just jumping all over each other to believe they're real.

people would rather save a buck than learn.

everyone wants a deal. no one wants to work.

[meyle77]

I think that Pawel Nowak is more than one person - it is probably a group of online scammers.