questions/experts /reputations

[hawkins]

this could apply to any Field but my question is lets say i am looking for a overview on this topic. i would class My self as having a good overview on whats original and whats not . But not to the point were i do not need help at times so when i do ask for help i ask those . who i find have more years have handiiled more then i will ever hope for and so on and are well Learned in the field .

So what happins when these Learned people have a different view on originality of a item . my self i try and take a over view of what has been said then add my own thoughts to the Equation


i can give a example if some would like

[big ned]

this could apply to any Field but my question is lets say i am looking for a overview on this topic. i would class My self as having a good overview on whats original and whats not . But not to the point were i do not need help at times so when i do ask for help i ask those . who i find have more years have handiiled more then i will ever hope for and so on and are well Learned in the field .

So what happins when these Learned people have a different view on originality of a item . my self i try and take a over view of what has been said then add my own thoughts to the Equation


i can give a example if some would like

No need old boy, I think you have put your opinion across with reasonable eloquence, and would therefore like to wish you my sincere contrafibularities.

Thanking you, Ned.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Rule #1 in "Collecting" - Approach everything like "rolling the dice" in a casino - only spend what you are comfortable losing . . . Enjoy the "highs" when they come, and never fear the "lows" when they smack you in the backside . . . You will sleep well at night if you can learn to collect this way.

[tempelhof]

i collected oil paintings for a long time. i suppose i still do but i haven't been active the last few years. dutch old masters and landscapes and some modern.

there are problems that come up with attributions and the like. there are disagreements among experts.

in general, i see it like this: controversy is bad. where experts disagree, i stay away.

to me, it doesn't matter if the item in question is original or not... it doesn't matter who is right. the controversy itself damages the item.

just my opinion.

[hawkins]

i collected oil paintings for a long time. i suppose i still do but i haven't been active the last few years. dutch old masters and landscapes and some modern.

there are problems that come up with attributions and the like. there are disagreements among experts.

in general, i see it like this: controversy is bad. where experts disagree, i stay away.

to me, it doesn't matter if the item in question is original or not... it doesn't matter who is right. the controversy itself damages the item.

just my opinion.

thats a very interesting point , by the way i love old oil paintings but to much $$$$ for me , i have been to the Louver / vatican/florence/

amazing art work .

[Wagriff]

New facts and information is constantly being uncovered and added to the experts knowledge and data bases. The fakers in this hobby are relentlessly working on achieving the undetectable fake and it is these experts and their unending updating of their own knowledge that is keeping collectors from wasting enormous sums of money on deliberately manufactured frauds.

[Larry C]

this could apply to any Field but my question is lets say i am looking for a overview on this topic. i would class My self as having a good overview on whats original and whats not . But not to the point were i do not need help at times so when i do ask for help i ask those . who i find have more years have handiiled more then i will ever hope for and so on and are well Learned in the field .

So what happins when these Learned people have a different view on originality of a item . my self i try and take a over view of what has been said then add my own thoughts to the Equation


i can give a example if some would like

Nothing wrong with soliciting for additional advise or an opinion,, of a mentor or one versed in the hobby for many years. An Army General is nothing!!..without advisors. Great input Hawkins! Larry

[hawkins]

Nothing wrong with soliciting for additional advise or an opinion,, of a mentor or one versed in the hobby for many years. An Army General is nothing!!..without advisors. Great input Hawkins! Larry

Thanks i am more Contemplating the
dilemma . of when one advanced adviser has the opposite view when you have asked both for advise . and here lies the dilemma . for my self any way . i add my own thoughts in to the mix , bottom line Were do you go from there with a item to get to the truth , especially if the item is early 1930s , This new train of Thought i see more and more I have not seen one like that so its Fake is not washing with me , ,, just me thinking out load

[Larry C]

Hi Hawkins,,for those one of a kind artifacts,,there is a 50/50 possibility of its authenticity. I come across that stuff all the time and sometimes its heartbreaking. As Wagriff said technology has advanced so much that,, its more faster to find out what we need. Yet their are times that "old fashioned" research...(not just books and references) which also are fallible...are needed...This type of research is called "time"..so we need to dig a little deeper ourselves sometimes if we want to find out the truth. What ever item that one possesses and has no answer for,, I say hang onto it,, I said this phrase alot "we have only scratched the surface of collecting of this time period nor will we ever get to the core of it" We just didnt live back then,, nor can we fathom the horror except a few handfuls of our senior German collectors,....new information is coming to the surface every day,,, where we are scratching..but only as fast as we can dig for it and not when we "just want it" to appear. Research takes years more so on rarer items. This is the "blood and sweat" of collecting...and the majority of us enjoy it!! Keep digging!! Best regards Larry

[Wagriff]

The reasoning on the surface does sound solid, but actually, to dismiss a statement from a several decades experienced well-seasoned collector expert because "he hadn't seen such an item before" Does carry a considerable more bit of weight and should be attended to closer than a new collector who's just began growing an interest in such things. Absolutely, No one can know or have seen Everything-it's just not humanly possible. But they will certainly have seen a great deal more than the average casual collector has and will have gotten pretty well accustomed to How certain things Should look and know How they were built and assembled, and so, when presented with an item that carries little or none of the normally seen attributes of the era, they can Certainly give, if nothing else, a Very Well Educated Guess, which is Way more than a random flip a coin type of guess.
Most all major varieties and styes of memorabilia have already been well established. The experts have at their hand considerable data bases which have been either assembled by themselves through painstaking and long experience or else they have official records with which to consult. Fakers techniques, on the other hand, are a constantly changing variable, as they relentlessly strive to produce the ultimate undetectable fake with which to swindle honest collectors out of their moneys with. It is Here that there will always be new facts and knowledge showing up. Take, just for example, SS helmet decals. These are heavily faked and are Always being improved on. Two of the resident experts on such things here on this forum would be DougB and Schwerpunkt. Between these 2 lads, they are, quite probably, the leading such experts on them in the collector world. BUT...imagine now, a faker in, say, Poland somewhere suddenly comes up with a Near Perfect New decal variety. DougB may not have encountered a specimen of it before but Schwerpunkt Has. So, naturally, they would disagree. In that case, both would lay out precisely their reasoning and facts to each other until the new specimen had been explained to DougB's satisfaction. If, for some reason, DougB Still did not accept it, he would investigate the new facts told him on his own and find out which version of facts was correct. Perhaps you might well even see a couple More well seasoned such decal experts wade in and add the weight of their own knowledge to the debate until it had been decided satisfactorily to all the parties concerned. Basically, the items which were officially produced and used are quite well known to Some one out there Somewhere and there are a Finite number of kinds and varieties. It is almost impossible to imagine something totally new and unheard of by Everyone to suddenly show up on the scene at this point in time and be genuine. The last 3rd Reich item to be produced was on May 7 1945. After nearly 70 years of intense collecting and studying, yes many, if not all of the varieties produced have been seen,examined and documented by the hundreds of serious collectors and academics. Personality items that were custom produced? Of course not. But, again, they will, at this age, be bearing signs of their age and manufacture that should, hopefully, steer the potential new owner in the proper direction. It's a never ending war between the fakers and the experts, and it's precisely these types of experts that keep the fakers from getting the upper hand.