ROA in Warsaw 1944..??

[StefanM]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Warsaw_Uprising_-_Kaminski_(1944).jpg

Commanding officer Major Ivan Denisovich Frolov (center) with the officers of the Russian National Liberation Army (RONA) during the Warsaw Uprising. The officer to the right from Frolov is Ltn. Michalczewski. The soldier, first from the right, is assumed to belong to the Russian Liberation Army (ROA - or POA in cyrillic, as seen in the arm patch detail below).

Screen Shot 2014-06-23 at 12.05.28.png

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here's the thing...the photo above is universally credited as being from the Warsaw Rising of August-October 1944 but how can this be because the soldier on the far right appears to be wearing an ROA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Armiya) patch on his sleeve and my understanding is that the ROA was officially formed some time after the fall of the Warsaw Rising so could not have taken part in the fighting.

The Waffen-SS Brigade RONA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Narodnaya Armiya) however did take part in the fighting against the Polish insurgents.

If the above is true then where was this photo taken? Prague uprising which started on May 5, 1945, maybe?

Any thoughts?

Warsaw_Uprising_-_ROA_&_German_Soldiers_(1944).jpg

The man on the right is the same ROA soldier from the first photo, again this photo is credited as being from the Warsaw Rising.

I know Victor Suvorov has claimed that the man on the far left is Putin's father.

[harryamb2]

nice pics.

[HPL2008]

Here's the thing...the photo above is universally credited as being from the Warsaw Rising of August-October 1944 but how can this be because the soldier on the far right appears to be wearing an ROA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Armiya) patch on his sleeve and my understanding is that the ROA was officially formed some time after the fall of the Warsaw Rising so could not have taken part in the fighting.

I have no exact date for the official introduction of the ROA / РОА sleeve shield, but it was included in regulations/charts of 1st July 1944, i.e. a full month before the Warsaw Rising.*)

The term Russische Befreiungsarmee / Русская освободительная армия was in existence even before that: Littlejohn's Foreign Legions of the Third Reich (and other secondary sources) gives the date for the creation of the designation as 1943, and also has a picture of a graduation diploma from the Erste Offiziersschule der Russischen Befreiungsarmee (ROA) dated February 1944.

(Of course, at that time, the ROA consisted of widely dispersed units and was an army in name only.)

But as for hard, primary information on the precise date and location when the photograph was taken... Sorry, no idea. I, too, have only ever seen it credited as being from the Warsaw Rising.

-----

*) EDIT: Schlicht & Angolia write that the ROA sleeve shield was already included in the earlier Merkblatt 8a/3.
Said Merkblatt 8a/3 "Landeseigene Hilfskräfte im Osten / Hilfswillige" is dated 29th April 1943, much earlier still.

[Shadwellarmy]

Anyone who are able to identify which vehicle that can be seen on photo 2? it might help to date first photo.

[SteveR]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Warsaw_Uprising_-_Kaminski_(1944).jpg

Commanding officer Major Ivan Denisovich Frolov (center) with the officers of the Russian National Liberation Army (RONA) during the Warsaw Uprising. The officer to the right from Frolov is Ltn. Michalczewski. The soldier, first from the right, is assumed to belong to the Russian Liberation Army (ROA - or POA in cyrillic, as seen in the arm patch detail below).

Screen Shot 2014-06-23 at 12.05.28.png

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here's the thing...the photo above is universally credited as being from the Warsaw Rising of August-October 1944 but how can this be because the soldier on the far right appears to be wearing an ROA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Armiya) patch on his sleeve and my understanding is that the ROA was officially formed some time after the fall of the Warsaw Rising so could not have taken part in the fighting.

The Waffen-SS Brigade RONA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Narodnaya Armiya) however did take part in the fighting against the Polish insurgents.

If the above is true then where was this photo taken? Prague uprising which started on May 5, 1945, maybe?

Any thoughts?

Warsaw_Uprising_-_ROA_&_German_Soldiers_(1944).jpg

The man on the right is the same ROA soldier from the first photo, again this photo is credited as being from the Warsaw Rising.

I know Victor Suvorov has claimed that the man on the far left is Putin's father.

That explains why Putin is acting like Hitler.

[StefanM]

I have no exact date for the official introduction of the ROA / РОА sleeve shield, but it was included in regulations/charts of 1st July 1944, i.e. a full month before the Warsaw Rising.*)

The term Russische Befreiungsarmee / Русская освободительная армия was in existence even before that: Littlejohn's Foreign Legions of the Third Reich (and other secondary sources) gives the date for the creation of the designation as 1943, and also has a picture of a graduation diploma from the Erste Offiziersschule der Russischen Befreiungsarmee (ROA) dated February 1944.

(Of course, at that time, the ROA consisted of widely dispersed units and was an army in name only.)

But as for hard, primary information on the precise date and location when the photograph was taken... Sorry, no idea. I, too, have only ever seen it credited as being from the Warsaw Rising.

-----

*) EDIT: Schlicht & Angolia write that the ROA sleeve shield was already included in the earlier Merkblatt 8a/3.
Said Merkblatt 8a/3 "Landeseigene Hilfskräfte im Osten / Hilfswillige" is dated 29th April 1943, much earlier still.

Many thanks for the information, as always your help is very much appreciated.

I read through Littlejohn's Foreign Legions of the Third Reich section regarding the ROA and as you mention it seems that this was an army in but name. There is no mention in the reference book to any combat role by ROA in Warsaw 1944 and I have yet to find mention of the ROA being present in Warsaw in August-October 1944 or indeed at any time? Unless there was a component of ROA within RONA which might explain the photo?

[Shadwellarmy]

I've just did some re-reading about the Kaminski brigade, apparently Frolov was KIA by a Polish flame thrower during the uprising, can anyone confirm this?

[HPL2008]

By the way, here is another discussion about this group of men over on the AHF:

Axis History Forum

[Dimas]

Then he must claim that the Frolov in the center are British Georg .

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Warsaw_Uprising_-_Kaminski_(1944).jpg

Commanding officer Major Ivan Denisovich Frolov (center) with the officers of the Russian National Liberation Army (RONA) during the Warsaw Uprising. The officer to the right from Frolov is Ltn. Michalczewski. The soldier, first from the right, is assumed to belong to the Russian Liberation Army (ROA - or POA in cyrillic, as seen in the arm patch detail below).

Screen Shot 2014-06-23 at 12.05.28.png

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here's the thing...the photo above is universally credited as being from the Warsaw Rising of August-October 1944 but how can this be because the soldier on the far right appears to be wearing an ROA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Armiya) patch on his sleeve and my understanding is that the ROA was officially formed some time after the fall of the Warsaw Rising so could not have taken part in the fighting.

The Waffen-SS Brigade RONA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Narodnaya Armiya) however did take part in the fighting against the Polish insurgents.

If the above is true then where was this photo taken? Prague uprising which started on May 5, 1945, maybe?

Any thoughts?

Warsaw_Uprising_-_ROA_&_German_Soldiers_(1944).jpg

The man on the right is the same ROA soldier from the first photo, again this photo is credited as being from the Warsaw Rising.

I know Victor Suvorov has claimed that the man on the far left is Putin's father.

[HPL2008]

There's something else I just noticed... although it could be I am just seeing things.

The NCO standing in the background of the group and peeking between the two officers looks a lot like a man seen in a well-known photograph of Heinz Reinefarth during the Warsaw Rising (on the far right):

Reinefarth.JPG

Could it be the same man?