Why does the Third Reich attract so many collectors?

[DioMac]

To all.

Having just watched a documentary on the holocaust, it is imperative that as a collector of third reich material, you keep first and foremost in your mind what an absolute abomination of human creation the third reich, in all it's permutations - civilian and military were.

This was a regime that murdered millions and is soaked in blood.

Remember that. It stands above all sentiment and ideas of aesthetics.

Stalinist russia is equally as reprehensible for it's gulags.

Before you paint me, I despise politics of ANY persuasion. We must remember that by collecting, we keep alive the memory of those that suffered.

[Scout]

Nobody is going to 'paint' you. Its just that we KNOW about the crimes of the TR (sort of difficult not to).
Some here are just aware of another equally as bad or worse regime and some of us feel, that its an insult to our intelligence, when there are those who lightly skate over the unfathomable atrocities, that the USSR committed.
Its not a matter of one being 'better' than the other. Its a matter of being aware, that there are other horrors out there.

Check out Vasili Blokhin, read 'Stalin' by Robert Service, Solzhenitsyns writings about the Glavnoe Upravlenie Ispravitelno Trudovijk Lagerei i kolonij or GULAGS etc etc ad nauseam.

[drmessimer]

Waggriff: It would really be enjoyable to read something like that, but you're right, it will never happen. Everyone has an opinion about something, and keeping one's opinion completely out of the discussion, regardless of the form--written, spoken, or visual--a certain degree of opinion will creep into the discussion, and in some cases overpower it. Dwight

DioMac: You're right that any visual presentation of the Nazis' KZ program is disturbing. And I agree that it was a terrible thing for which the perpetrators should have been, and to large degree were, punished. And I am absolutely sure that everyone who has responded to this thread shares your sense of revulsion at the excesses of the Nazi government. But, you can ask any combat veteran, especially a combat rifleman, what he was fighting for and, regardless of which war he fought in or for which government he fought under, that rifleman will tell you he fought to live and he fought for the men in his unit. No genuine combat veteran, regarless of his uniform, will tell you that he fought for the "cause," the flag, or any political agenda. A REMF will dredge up the hackneyed patriotic phrases, but not a man who was eyeball deep combat. I agree that evil is evil, but I also understand that even in the most evil situation, good people exist. Thanks for the post and for bringing an alternative view to the thread. Dwight

[drmessimer]

Scout: Very well said. Dwight

[Wagriff]

DioMac, Absolutely, what you said. I'm not disagreeing at all, but the point being, that people are strangely fascinated by the Third Reich and we'd like to know Why. If it were simply a matter of atrocities and crimes against humanity, there's plenty of others to be drawn to as Well, but nothing like it has occurred -Just the TR. What makes it so diametrically different than those of all the other bloody governments and regimes?

[TrondK]

............there's plenty of others to be drawn to as Well, but nothing like it has occurred -Just the TR. What makes it so diametrically different than those of all the other bloody governments and regimes?

I believe Boss helped the collectors when he designed good looking uniforms, that not only looking good in a display, but these soldier fought against everyone in the end. Alot of the people in Europe, Sovjet, and the US had something to do with the TR. Family, relatives, neighbours, everyone was in their own way entangeled in the spiderweb we call ww2. But i also believe the pieces of militara left behind after 45. Opened up for a generation of kids who played with these leftbehind military objects in the big abanded coastal fortresses and bunkers. And as we know, when the adults are telling the kids something is strictly forbidden- well then it is like a unresistable thing for a kid before the age of internet and television.
But in some way it could be ww2 to is on a less popular way into the future, some kids look at me like i am a loco when i start to tell about "the war". They hardly look at me and say: What war?- Oh no that is a long time ago.. (And they continue to play with their musicplayers that are of the size of a matcbox.)

[drmessimer]

TrondK: You really scored a point by pointing out that WWI affected everyone in Europe, the British Commonwealth, and the US in one way or another and to one degree or another. And I liked your observation on the impact that WWII had on the immediate postwar generation compared to the kids today. For those of us who were born before the war as well as the "Baby Boomers" born after the war, WWII was/is a big thing in our lives. And you are right that for today's kids, the question is, "which war?" The United States has fought at least four wars since 1945 and has committed troops to several other much smaller conflicts. But your implied point, that many of our Forum members are from the pre-war and immediate postwar generation, which was heavily affected by WWII is well taken and certainly a reason that so many of us are interested in Third Reich artifacts. Thanks for the excellent post. Dwight

[kylesbullets]

I collect german because of my family being there at the time and it seemed to have more of a story behind it than some of the french, or japanese items. Also, germany is why ww2 started.....

[drmessimer]

So far this thread has been extremely successful in providing reasons that the Third Reich is so attractive to collectors and historians. In fact, it has been more successful that I had expected it to be. We are by no means finished with this discussion, but I would like to take this moment to post some of the things I have learned from your replies.

The first point that needs to be addressed is that none of you collect Third Reich artifacts, or have an interest in the Third Reich, because you revere and want to glorify it. For the most part, your interest stems from intellectual curiosity in one form or another, an interest based on family history, and the sense that there is a certain archeological association with possessing Third Reich artifacts. One of you referred to the Third Reich as something like a "lost empire."

Those of us who were born before WWII, and were old enough to be fully, and at times painfully, aware of it seem to be more likely to be interested in the Third Reich because as Uncle Paul wrote, "The war in Europe ended almost 70 years ago and yet the presence of the Third Reich is with us still. Could it be that our part in defeating the Nazis is something we recognize as unequivocally good, and that we keep replaying this period in our history to reassure ourselves that we are still virtuous?"

For those born after the war, the involvement of their father or other relatives in the war created a burning interest to learn more, and the popular movies, and later TV programs, fueled the interest. At least one, Alexander, was attracted to the era by his experience of being a soldier's son in postwar Germany, where he saw first-hand the architecture and remnants of the Third Reich.
Several of you cited the very nature of the artifacts, noting that the Third Reich produced "finely crafted" awards that reflected "evocative traditions" and exhibited "attention to detail." It's an attitude similar to that of people who collect art, which, within the content of their intent and purpose, Third Reich awards certainly approach.

I also detected a feeling that some of you are attracted by what I call "the lost cause syndrome," a variation on having a sort of sympathy for the underdog, evident is the observation that it was amazing that such a small country was able to hold out for so long against so many larger, more powerful enemies.

And some of us, possibly nearly all of us, are to some degree attracted to the dark side represented by the Third Reich. Many of us wonder how something so evil could sprout from a culture that was recognized for its contributions to the arts, science , and literature. I think that those of us who are attracted to the dark side are akin to those who see Third Reich awards as an art form since they can be described as a dark art.

Mostly, I found that all of you are interested in history and your interests are much broader than just the Third Reich. I also found that some of you really are not sure why you are attracted to collecting Third Reich artifacts other than that they are plentiful and easily researched. And as some of you said, "they look cool."

I hope the discussion continues since there is still more to learn. Dwight

[mauser9]

Original items from the TR be it Mausers,Daggers, uniforms or whatever continue to grow in value. If Not for the horror of the regime attached to them I doubt these items would be worth the prices being paid. Also you have to respect the fantastic fighting qualities and the ability to inflict horrendous casulties on the enemy even in retreat. These factors deserve respect and the quality of the items is first rate.