Hi Reibert
would you know.....on your RM made example...would you happen you know what the paper stickers/labels were used for!!???? I have several Austrian stahlhelm with evidence these labels...well at least the residue remaining from where a sticker once was!!???
Hi Stalhelm 1 fans!!
its been a while now since ive added anything to this thread..so thought I would share with you my latest addition!!
yet another rare "10 lobe" M75 liner!!! in a size 59-61 largest size issued!!!
found on the old favourite Ebay listed as a motorbike helmet!!!
ok so.. this one is a little different to my other two.,,, (and to Greggs examples) in that it too is an M.P. Frankenberg.....but this example is dated 1974!!!??? both of my others and any others I have seen are all 1976 dated!! it has no HBA mark.... but instead it has a ink stamped mark inside one of the lobes.... HE * ..... and what looks like 1975???? (unfortunately it has been stamped on the rough leather and is hard to make out clearly!!) no similar marks are present on my other two!!..... perhaps you would be so kind as to check your own examples???!!!
oh......and it occurs to me.. starring at all three together.. and comparing the others I have seen..... is that the "10 lobers" all seem to have the same white shoelace for adjustment in the crown of the headband!!!cool militaries
this particular M75 liner has also had some graffiti added at some time in chalk (looks to be a comical face drawn on...you can just make out the eyes ears and depending which way up it should be either a lolling tongue or a hat!!!and off to the side the letter "A" and possibly more letters that have worn off... also the front peak has a hole drilled in it!!?? I cant think what purpose this would have... other than to "hang" it up on a hook!!???!??
your comments on this greatly appreciated...
Hi all
Im very proud to present my latest addition to my M75 collection!!...
At first glance its just a common or garden M75...right???................. WRONG!!!!!!!!
issue type M75 helmet net with elastic...
flip it over...liner is a little more interesting... though still fairly common .. its an M58 dark grey thermoplastic liner with the retro fitted M75 leather matrix... and the holes for the original old "riddel type" M58 headband are filled with rivets (see photos)
remove the liner ...now the fun begins!!!
First off the makers mark!!
SH-BS-86!!!
So intriguingly its made by well known West German manufacturer ScHubeth BraunSchweig in 1986!!!
the bail fixings are of an unusual nature (see pic) the chinstrap is replacement MB marked..and only has the single open catch, also the rear seam spot welds are reminiscent of the old Zweitillge M56 !! with the for small dot welds to the seam!!!( re use of old machine tooling for M56 production perhaps!!??)
the shell itself has paint damage in the usual spots (bail stack damage) and the shell in general seems to lose its paint easily leaving bright rough finish base metal beneath!!!.....but strangely the exposed metal shows absolutely no sign of oxidisation!!! and even stranger considering the shell is magnetic!!!!!! i tested this I thought perhaps it was a stainless shell!!??
(all Austrian made are non magnetic!!)
A little research later..and an E-mail to Schuberth GMBH.. this was the reply!!...
Dear sir,
Thank you for your email and your interest in our products. Please be informed about the following:
- SCHUBERTH never pressed steel helmet shells, SCHUBERTH pressed liner helmets and sold complete helmet systems.
- SCHUBERTH produced the complete helmet system shown in your photo in 1986. Your explanation of the manufacturer code is correct.
- We are very sorry to inform you that we do not have information about these old contracts.
Maybe this book could support your investigations about Austrian steel helmets:
Weiterleitungshinweis
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards
Lothar Schuster
BU Military & Police - Head of BU
I also asked a few more clarifying questions to which the reply was as follows..
Dear Sir,
Steel shells were produced at that time by companies like VDN (Vereinigte Deutsche Nickel-Werke) or Linnemann Schnetzer GmbH. These shells were painted inside SCHUBERTH and SCHUBERTH liners or SCHUBERTH liner helmets were installed. SCHUBERTH sold the complete helmets (mostly after winning tenders) to several armies and police forces.
The steel quality to use was mostly defined in customers specification.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards
Lothar Schuster
BU Military & Police - Head of BU
So as it transpires the shell was actually the Steel helmet itself was pressed by either VDN or LS... I would lean to the side of LS due to the similarities between the construction, bail type and weld pattern of the rim of LS manufactured M56 Zweitillage shells!!....
And thanks to a member on another forum Bernhard whom I consider an expert in the field of Austrian militaria!! who wrote this in response of my post..
Thank you for showing this helmet !!!
It is a very nice and extremely rare variant of the Stahlhelm.
Schuberth only had a "trial" contract of 1000 helmet shells given to them in
1985.
There were problems with the technical specifications that were handed over to
Schuberth however...
Resulting in problems with the paint , the quick release fitting on the chinstrap and the type of steel the helmet has to be made of.....
The late Herr Baer covers this 1985 contract in one
of his books in close detail....
Vom Stahlhelm zum Kampfhelm, from 1920- 2005, volume 2, Ludwig Bayer.
A great find !!!!!!!!!!
so to summarise.....
This is one of a trial batch of 1000 ordered from Schuberth GMBH in 1985, the shells themselves were pressed by either LS or VDN and Schuberth painted date stamped and maker marked the shell SH-BS-86..... fitted out with chinstraps and added a liner.. of which my example does not seem to still have!! (more searching to be done to find more information about the original chinstrap and liner!!)..
your thoughts please...
And so you should be.by austromunga
Wow. That's incredible. It's exciting enough that you found a previously uncommon variant (completely unknown to me!), but even more mind-boggling that you did such good supplementary research AND got useful information from a manufacturer (do you know how rare that is!?!?). I'm amazed delighted and impressed. I've only skimmed your little essay so far and will be back to it more than once.
You really ought to assemble all your Stahlhelm 1 and 2 observations into a single piece - I'd be happy to give you webspace for it if required.
Wow.
Well!!! Thanks Greg!!! that's praise indeed coming from yourself!!!!!!!
This is what collecting Helmets is about for me!!! ..the thrill of the chase..... followed by the thirst for more knowledge about the history behind each item!!!!!
and I have to admit....... I had never before heard of this variant of M75... until I came across this example...and as most of you on here already know... my main focus is Austrian Stahlhelm!!! so that one snuck under my radar!!!!
so... with a mixture of likeminded individuals (Bernhard from WAF forum..Thanks for the invaluable information on this!!! ) and a little detective work... ( I also tried to get in contact with Linnmann and schnetzer .....but they solely manufacture braking system Air tanks for trucks now!!.....so, so far there... ive drawn a blank..!!!)
One fine day I will attempt to collate all I have learned about the humble Austrian Stahlhelms... from a multitude of forums, helpful members from here and other sources.. and attempt to illustrate with some examples from my still growing collection..... my goal being to make as much as a complete a history of this interesting collecting area as I possibly can..
....with this addition... i feel... I'm that little bit closer!!!!...
Watch this space!!!!
One of the 30,000
Hi all.
This is one of the 30,000 US helmets given to Austria in 1955 upon ending occupation duty. It is a front seamed shell late pattern lining suspension.
It would be interesting to know which US units gave their helmets and what happened to their liners. This helmet has seen over 30 years od ÖBH service.
That's a real nice one Ocad!!
I would imagine the units that donated their M1's would have been the very same that had been in the U.S. zone occupational forces after the war... made up from the 15th army group.. which included elements of the HQ company II corps, 11th armoured div, 42nd Inf Div and the 65th Div ... these were all assigned to the newly formed U.S. Occupational Forces Austria under the command of General Mark W. Clark.... some 29,000 troops... pretty close to the magic number then for the 30,000 donated M1's!!!
Thanks austromunga. I think its amazing how long these WW2 period shells remained in service, this one over forty years and it still appears in great condition. I have another with a replacement chinstrap bale. WW2 shells can sometimes be found on Vietnam era helmets but the Austrians used their US M1s far longer then the US did! It was also not just helmets that was left but jeeps and armoured vehicles.
That is very interesting about the units and the 29,000 number. I bet some soldiers were reluctant to give up their helmet, unless the QM had an excess in store.
Although as you say 29k sounds like the magic number.
Are you also interested in these earlier helmets?
Yes Ocad
originally, just after the War there were some 73,000 U.S. troops this was diminished to the 29,000 after one year... so you see.. there would have been more than plenty of M1 helmets in the QM!!...
The Europeans certainly made full use of their donations, or in the case of the Danish... cheap deal!! some US WW II front seam helmets were still being used (Civilfoveret) up into the near present!!!!
I have one example of the early Austrian "M55" I like to call them!! my example still retains its original US WW II corking finish!! mine however... has the first type Austrian made liner (I believe these were made in the first instance to replace the by then well used original US liners in the donated WW II M1 shells!!!... then also used for the new Austrian made Stahlhelm 2 M58 shell, as these were exact copy's of the Us liners.. these were made from 1958-1964.. as the type two thermoplastic liners replaced them after that... these are not marked with either a maker or a date, unless an HBA mark can be found!!)
my liner bears the maker mark U.Sch 59 Ulbricht`s Witwe , Schwanenstadt 1959... HBA dated ..(Austrian army acceptance stamp) for 1959 ..... also a Vizeleutnant decal to the front, and the owners name and rank in pen to the sweatband!!! .... the shell is a 1942, heat stamp 123C front seam fixed bail, McChord made shell...
and finally some nice period pics of the Jeeps you mention!!!
That's a fantastic helmet! Front seamed fixed bale with early Austrian liner... and decal. I should imagine this is quite a scarce helmet, especially considering most early helmets you see have been
repaired or had new liners.
I have seen a few of these early liners but assume they were Belgium clones. Now I am looking out for one, I can't find
any.
Btw, what is the significance between the double chinstrap snap and single one? Double versions appear more common.
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