French M-51.

[Opex]

the Lebanese soldier in the last photo thats smoking a cigarette almost looks like he could be wearing another type of M1 clone? notice his chin straps have the metal hardware instead of being sewn on? possibly Austrian , Belgium M1 judging by the finish or it could be a French M51 made for export.

To be honest BG I never even noticed the T1 type hardware, that does open up some very interesting options of it being an export model. Dunois made many experimental models maybe one of these???

[bourguignotte]

Hello,

Looking at the WWH website (End of article)

.: World War Helmets - Casque Modèle TTA 51 :.

It apprear that export helmet had a metal loop for fixing the chin strap.
It also apprear that liban used the M51

Bruno

[James C]

bruno that really is an interesting revelation ,i honestly thought the yeti liner was manufactured purposely ,so if ive got this right ,the shape is just down to a poor use of liner material ,well ive learned something today ,many thanks ,james

[bourguignotte]

Hello again,

Back to the question about mismatching Liner and shell, it is to be noted that only few Producers provided both Liner and shell. Many were providing only one of the item. That ma explain some diference including, as we saw for celuloid, that size may change.
Before 1958 test were mostly on resistance and paint. After, the size was also part of the testing and difference shouldn't exeed 1mm from Standard.

Bruno

[bourguignotte]

Hi James,

Happy to help : )

If you look at the "yeti" liner, none of them will be similar . Some may look nearly "normal" as some other will looks very stange depending on how they were stored. I am wondering if they weren't store one over the other, the Inside of the one on the top narowing the size of the one below, but this is a very personal theory. It could also be the celuloid itself but I am not a chemist so I cannot tell on that subject

All the best

Bruno

[Opex]

Hi Bruno, I think you are correct the liners were made from materials that warped very easily, and this would result in misshaped profiles. Great theory

[Opex]

Hi fellow collectors, here I have another Mle OTAN 51 from my collection to add further detail to its features ,the shell was manufactured by FRANCK Aubervilliers The oldest supplier of helmets to the French army, famously such as the Mle 1912 Adrian.
The liner was manufactured by FD (an unknown maker) made from an industrial cotton fabric impregnated with phenolic resin, moulded under heat and pressure (Cotton bakelised), called "Celeron" hence the C under the date. It gives the liner an appearance very much that of the US M1 liner.
This particular example features the name of "Flamand" on the sweatband, but otherwise has no identifying marks from its original owner.
In conclusion a very fine example of the helmets worn by French Forces in Indo-China during the 1950’s.

[bourguignotte]

Hello Opex,

Congartulation for this very nice one in very good condition.

I may just had some comments : )
Franck is indeed an old provider of the french army, but they weren't retained to produce the M15 Adrian helmet. 8 other companies gained these market, Japy beeing the first of them. The other beeing added lately in order to ensure the huge level of production requested.

That said, The Franck & Siraudin were still used by some officiers at the begining and mostly by photographic studios, as shown by numerous post card or photos at that time. They are uncommon and researched item.
Back to the reason for not beeing retained, it comes to the nature of the steel used that was too strong and could broke, creating wounds. This is in light with many other discussions we had on the way french helmet were produced : )

Concerning your helmet, it was produced in 1953. It is still war time in Indochina but it might still be late considering the production and travel time. It is more common to see fixe bal helmet from 51 and 52. That said the last french soldiers left in 56 and most were all reequiped as well as for the local troups.

All the best

Bruno

[37Webbing]

Another splendid helmet.
I have a soft spot, for Euro clones. Very nice helmets!

The liner, does it smell... Well. Strange? I have a couple of Danish produced M1-clone liners.
Made in the same way as your French one, and they smell horrid.

[Opex]

Hello Opex,

Congartulation for this very nice one in very good condition.

I may just had some comments : )
Franck is indeed an old provider of the french army, but they weren't retained to produce the M15 Adrian helmet. 8 other companies gained these market, Japy beeing the first of them. The other beeing added lately in order to ensure the huge level of production requested.

That said, The Franck & Siraudin were still used by some officiers at the begining and mostly by photographic studios, as shown by numerous post card or photos at that time. They are uncommon and researched item.
Back to the reason for not beeing retained, it comes to the nature of the steel used that was too strong and could broke, creating wounds. This is in light with many other discussions we had on the way french helmet were produced : )

Concerning your helmet, it was produced in 1953. It is still war time in Indochina but it might still be late considering the production and travel time. It is more common to see fixe bal helmet from 51 and 52. That said the last french soldiers left in 56 and most were all reequiped as well as for the local troups.

All the best

Bruno

Hi Bruno, many thanks for your comments and apologies for the confusion if I made it seem that Franck was the only provider of the Mle-15 Adrian.

And it would logical that this example was probably not use in Indo-China due to the issue date and general condition,which is too pristine to have been used in the south -east Jungles. I read in a book by Martin Windrow that French forces wore US M1's for the early part of this conflict and when the MLe-51 wa issued it spend more time attached to the soldiers belt than on the top of his head, which makes sense as 99% the reference pictures from this era I have show Legionnaires wearing Beret's ,kepi's or bush hats.

Your valuable input is most welcome as ever,and therefore most appreciated.

Thank you again