Never seen a real example. Fred Stephens manufactured a dozen or more of these in the UK several years back. They are all out on the market somewhere today.
Never seen a real example. Fred Stephens manufactured a dozen or more of these in the UK several years back. They are all out on the market somewhere today.
pgs 110-112 Volume 4 Collecting the Edged Weapons of the Third Reich.by Tom Johnson
The bayonet at that time reposed in the collection of Dr Julius Milestone and supposedly was one of the only known ones in existence in the world. As JR points out ..opportunity had produced some of these Bayonets as well as many other highly sought after Third Reich Edged Weapons.
After Dr. Milestone passed away 2 decades ago much of his collection had been purchased by a few dealers Tom Johnson and Wittmann to name a couple and would give could reason that this bayonet " may " be the same one seen on Johnsons table at the militaria show.
I give Credit to member Kekel for his resourcefulness in researching further and leading the readers to Tom Johnsons 4th volume reference.
The blade length can be seen in the photo.
Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Interesting addition to the thread Larry. I'm not sure what we can do with Johnsons 1979 story as it is so vague on details as to be impossible to verify and JR Meda's comment adds to the problem.
Angolia in his 1971 book "Daggers, bayonets & fighting knives of Hitler's Germany" has clearly never seen one and provides only a line drawing. Mention is made of the May 1940 Alcoso catalogue, but it is unclear if Angolia's drawing is based on the catalogue or not. The line drawing shows no rivets through the grip plates. The "mother of pearl" in fact being celluloid.
I might add the scabbard chape on Mike1's example in post 1 is quite different to what we see in that picture from Johnson's book. And the photo suggests a longer blade and the scabbard looks like it's been borrowed from a Police side arm. A bit of a minefield.
I can agree what your saying Anderson as we are both reading from the same text regarding the rivets on the grip.
Yet if we study the grip plates that fit under the fittings of the Govt./ Diplo dagger and sword examples ..they do not require the rivets and the tight fit in construction holds those mother of pearl grips in place.
Yet in the Alcoso example there is not seen a ferrule ring next to the crossguard nor does the grip plates fit beneath the grips eagles head...which would mean it would make sense that the rivets would be needed to hold in place the grip plates.
This as we see with Dress bayonets and HJ knives.
Fred Stephens states in his 1972 Edged Weapons of the Third Reich pg 110 the same hand drawn illustration " WITH " the Rivets. and credit for this source is in the Alcoso 1940 sales catalog.
The last mention of this Bayonet was also mentioned in Johnsons 2nd reference which I will have to access which features the actual photograph of the sword dagger and bayonet taken from the Magazine Die Klinge. ( This quote excerpt from Johnsons 4th volume pg 110 )
I would be curious of the overall length seen in the first post including the blade length compared to the dimensions that are listed in Johnsons reference.
Best Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
hello my friend, I found photos of the original bayonet
adding a description to the pictures above: blade with stamped manufacturer's trademark obverse and reverse. Silver plated brass hilt with smooth trolon (toned) grips plates riveted to the hilt. Black leather scabbard body (worn) with silver plated nickel fittings retained by staples complete with leather frog. Length 36 cm.
A sketch of the bayonet appeared in the 1940 Alcoso sales catalogue. An actual example is pictured on page 12 of the May 1940, issue of "Die Klinge".
Extremely rare!
this is the Hermann historica auction hall price incredibly high: € 18,000
Kekel I suspect your example (post 15) is a post war construction (a fake) and I base that on the use of the "Alex. Coppel" maker mark which was not used after 1936 when the company was Aryanised. This type of dagger was announced late in 1939 and appear in the May 1940 "Alcoso" catalogue. They simply would not be using "Alex.Coppel" in 1940, the family being Jewish. The maker mark shown in OP's original post (AWS Alcoso Werk GmbH)) is correct for this era. I also have doubts about the scales logo stamped on the other side, it is poorly struck unlike any Alex. Coppel mark I have seen before.
As for the scabbard and frog, it looks to have come from a Polizei side arm.
This simply reminds us since the 1970's any rare or obscure dagger design has be a magnet for those wanting to replicate for financial gain.
Anderson thanks for the comment, I thought it would be original but I trust you more than the auction house. so I'll keep looking, hopefully someday I'll find a color picture of the original bayonet
My thinking also.
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