Edged Weapon Disassembly.....Research or Sacrilege

[dramos]

I have to share a story.
Last night I was messaging with a seller on ebay, who was selling an early SA dagger. I contacted him asking for more pictures. In the pictures he posted the dagger was completely taken apart and none of the pictures included the handle. Come to find out, he tells me that if I use the "Buy It Now" option he'll "throw in the handle". I was totally shocked and had to control myself from ripping him a new one. Anyway, this conversation stems from people doing exactly what he did, take apart a dagger that in no way needed to be taken apart.

[Greenhorn]

I wouldn't take them apart either, Steve. To prove authenticity, that's a different creature.

Waffenamt take-down tools....ridiculous! As silly as my SS sneakers. (I don't actually own these stupid things)

[operaman]

I can think of no reason to dissemble a 75 year old dagger.The list of things that could go wrong is endless,stripped screws or bolts cracked handles due to over tighten,putting it back together wrong or whatever.No reason to do it so don"t

[gerrit]

In some cases its even needed to take it down, for example the highly faked NPEA daggers.
There are NPEA's that have no need to be taken apart because of the already known reference material, like some graduation example's.
Comparing them with others from the same school is often enough.
But certainly a lot of NPEA leaders need thorough eximination.

Then there is the group that William mentioned: the one that have enough reference material to be proven right and need not to be taken apart, only studied well to know their characteristics.
In that case a inner marking of a guard or tang of a well known piece is not that important for me.

In a lot of cases when an early SA dagger is taken apart in an ad, then often happends that i will not even give it a second look, perhaps coming accross a bit too many parts daggers makes me feel that way.

So i think it highly depends on the dagger, its value, and its rarety, but having the rights tools and knowledge to open them up is needed, otherwise its a shame, a tang nut with workbench markings looks awful

So far my to cents
Ger

[Mac 66]

Touch nothing unless you really have to imo,

to many collectors pull unmessed/uncleaned genuine daggers apart to see various markings or to "improve" a piece


lovely unmessed with daggers can be damaged forever !!



Regards Mac 66.

[Larry C]

Question and example.........The NPEA which pops up from time to time... Highly desirable among collectors and difficult to find in great condition. A plain looking dagger no doubt but because of its affiliation to the HJ Schools ... This dagger is out into a category of desire as they were not mass produced but earned by merit including the chained leader example . So now the question ...some of our top collectors and dealers know what they are looking at when it comes to these types but even some of them have admitted that anymore ...that new hard to detect repros are appearing where the thought arises... That the only alternative now is to open it. A make or break decision which could be a win of lose for someone.
My thoughts are not to open all daggers ... No which IMO is not necessary at all due to ongoing study . What happens when that needle in a haystack appears for sale and not from a vet.

Poor fits and craftmanship are easily recognizable but what happens when a dagger of a rare status causes doubt ? I admit when I see NPEA or Govt official or HJ leader the thought crosses my mind. What are the alternatives or choices. How great is the opportunity can this be a win or lose for me? Should I fear and leave the opportunity for someone else to benefit?
Common daggers of study are a safe bet....but do we stay on the safe side of the fence ? I know one day I would want to know more if the opportunity ever arises, regards Larry

[davejb]

Normally I would agree, but what happens when you see a dagger that you know to be genuine, ie parts etc but it has been taken apart before, but has been put back wrong, ie eagle on the wrong side, cross guard on the wrong side, do you move on even if you can get it at a bargain price or buy it and reassemble so that everything is correct and end up with a perfect example,my stance on this practise has changed over the years, these daggers were manufactured mainly in parts that could be replaced if damaged , the fact that it has been over seventy yrs or so has resulted in a mindset amongst collectors that it is taboo to take an item apart for fear of damage, but what if your prized piece gets damaged, and you are able to replace that part for a completely original and matching piece, do you do it in order to retain its value or leave it and just accept that you now have a dagger that is no longer the same as you paid all that money for , a moral dilemma versus disassembly versus originality versus original outlay versus potential profit ????

[Lakesidetrader]

I always will pay more for an untouched, unstripped down dagger.

IMHO most collectors would too.

[Lakesidetrader]

Oh, one other thing no matter what people say on this thread some will elect to take down their daggers.
That is of course your prerogative but please, for the sake of the next generation, of collectors use the correct tools.
We've all seen a dagger that it look like a blacksmith worked 'em over!!
For all my War Relics Forum friends I do offer a free takedown wrench for political daggers, just email me and I'll get one out to you NC.
phogle@personainternet.com
Have a great weekend.
Paul

[Larry C]

A generous offer from a gentleman. Thank you Paul always for your knowledge and insight . My thoughts on this topic is for everyone to see the pros and cons of dagger take down...which I am more against it..
But want those to study and research hard ....to avoid a takedown. In some instances as pointed out above it may become necessary. I highly encourage those who are not sure not to do this but recruit the help of a collector who may give the best advice without going into detail over the forum. Regards Larry