interresting daggers

[lightyone]

Hello to you all, I just bought two interresting daggers, the first one is a Wehrmacht army dagger with a dedication etch saying: "Die Gebirgsdivision 1940" on one side and "Unserm Generaloberst" on the other side. I have never seen seen such a dedication dagger so i'm very interrested in your opinions.

The other one is a SA dagger marked E.P.S Solingen but it has a dark blade with gold etching. on one side "Alles fur Deutschland" (thats not that interresting) but on the other side is also a text: "treue um treue SA Oberfuhrer".

Sorry for the bad pictures i will later post some new better pictures.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

Any dagger with a exotic inscription or etched blade needs real caution when buying. These are not for the novice collector. When it comes to these, I put myself into this catagory

The basic Heer dagger seen here is good: but the blade here is the real issue. I too have not seen this particular one before, so I cannot offer any opinion.

The SA with the Damascus blade does really concern me. The fit of the wood grip to the crossguard is not good. I would expect a perfect fit here on what is after all, a presentation peice. The missing screw on the upper scabbard fitting is another thing to think about. Another concern: Leather buffer pad between the blade and crossguard: were these ever fitted to these daggers? On a general issue dagger this is a no-no. The painted scabbard is another issue.

Erstwhile good daggers being fitted with bad blades or inscriptions added to otherwise good blades are all issues to keep in mind when examining these kinds of daggers.

Cheers, Ade.

[lightyone]

Thank you for your reply Ade!
i did do some research on the "gebirgsdivision 1940" and came up with this: 3rd Mountain Division (Germany) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. maybe some better pictures may help? greets Eddy

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Eddy, the inscription is very general., "The Mountain Division". Which is a concern. These divisions were numbered in conventional fashion. Take a look here:

Lexikon der Wehrmacht - Gebirgs-Divisionen

Cheers, Ade.

[John Brandon]

Hi Eddy, and welcome to the forum
As ade has pointed out, damascus blades are a nightmare, when you consider the difference in price from a plain blade to an acid damascus blade, you can understand why there is a need to be cautious. If you have bought the daggers, and if you were to take the SA one down, would it be possible to see some pictures of the tang? there are certain "traits" that so far the fakers have not been able to replicate. It would be nice to see some true blades, and i hope that this is the case, one only has to remember a certain C.A. to realize the scams and lies people will go to.......................and this is how easy it is............................

Commercial metal finishers or people working inside the metal finishing business can duplicate the original Third Reich finish on a dagger blade quickly and cheaply and at the same time remove the original etching on the blade. This is not a job to be done at home, as any unevenness is easily detectable. A factory finish is perfect, and removes very little metal from the blade. Fakers almost always remove the original etching from the blades of daggers they are working on because it is so easy to replace. The process is known industrially as "photo-engraving" or "photo resist etching'" and it is used every day to make things like printed circuit boards.
A photo resists is a liquid lacquer-type substance to which photo sensitive material like ammonium bichromate has been added. It is applied to the blade of a dagger by dipping the blade in it or pouring the resist directly on the blade. The blade is then suspended or stood on end in a dark place so the excess resist can flow off and the remainder can dry. When dry, the blade looks like it has been varnished.

A film positive of the inscription to be etched on the blade is then positioned where it belongs on the blade, and is taped in place with transparent tape. The blade is placed in a plastic bag with a vacuum hose attached. When the vacuum is turned on the film negative is sucked tightly against the blade. The side of the blade with the film on it is then positioned in front of a carbon arc lamp (plain sunlight will also do the trick) for about one minute while light hardens the photo resist where it shows through clear film. Naturally, no light reaches the photo resist under the black pad of the film, so those photo resist spots remain soft and can be removed with a chemical developer. When the soft photo resist is removed it erases bare steel.

After baking the hardened photo resist to make it durable the blade is washed or sprayed with a solution like ferric chloride which removes exposed steel very quickly. To duplicate logo etching on a steel blade may require 2 or 3 minutes. To get a very deep etch as seen on the motto on some blades, or to replicate damascene work may require 5 to 10 minutes of etching depending on the temperature of the ferric chloride.

When the etch is correct the blade is removed, rinsed in clear water and then the hardened resist is removed with lacquer thinner. If it is desired, the etched spots can be chemically blackened prior to removal of the resist.

This type of etching is capable of reproducing extremely fine detail which has critically sharp edges and corners, even when examined under a powerful glass. A cheaper method which is capable of reproducing good, but not fine detail, is to silk screen a resist (like paint) on the blade leaving some areas of exposed steel. When silk screened resists and their resulting etchings are viewed under a useful glass

[lightyone]

Hi john, thanks for the (very detailed) information! I wil take a look as soon i'm back home (this will be friday).

I know that the presentation daggers for the SA were issued by e.p&s solingen Dienstdolch - Infos von Sammlern für Sammler - Der Ehrendolch (Röhmdolch)

and they have some markings on the trait Dienstdolch - Infos von Sammlern für Sammler - Schmiedemarken

I will look in to it! thanks for the information!