Solingen steel vs Krupp steel

[Larry C]

Here is a question that I have always pondered,,what is it that separates these 2 types of steel. Solingen for one is supposedly the strongest of steel made,, whereas Krupp is the toughest steel made mainly for armaments. Hitler himself has quoted Krupps name during a Hitler youth rally, in one of his speeches describing that " The youth must be as tough as Krupp steel".
any comments or thoughts are welcome,, documentation in discerning the 2 types are also welcome. Could of Krupp steel been used in some of these beautiful edged weapons that we so much adore? Regards Larry

[drmessimer]

Larry: Actually, Krupp steel and soligen steel are not suitable for comparison since all steel is made to a different metallurgical formula for different purposes. Much of the steel Krupp produced was hardened in different ways to reduce penetration, whereas Soligen makes steel for blades, a process that requires a finished product that can be sharpened and isn't brittle. I'm not a metallurgist so I can't rattle off the many formulas needed to make steel for specific purposes. Hopefully some of our members will be able to add more specific information with regard to what elements are needed for various steels. Dwight

[Thanatos]

Dwights on the mark.Krupp steel is alloy hardened "Armour" whilst Solingen steel is I believe named after the city of production and could use one of a number of compositions and alloying elements in it's production(for application).The Solingen name is used as a reference for 'knife steel' be it carbon or 'stainless' steel types. Similar concept to Sheffield steel.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Dave

[Danmark]

There are MANY elements that can be added to iron ( Fe ) to change it's properties.
Manganese ( Mn ) and Boron ( B ) for toughness, Copper ( C ) for corrosion resistance, Silicon ( Si ) for strength, Sulphur ( S ) for machineability, Phosphorous, Nickel, Titanium, Chromium and on and on.
Different alloys for different purposes as has been said above.
Dan

[Frogprince]

Krupp was a diverse heavy industry in multiple locations that not only made steel from the raw materials, but also had the larger scale equipment to make heavy armaments like naval canon barrels, artillery pieces, etc. etc. Whereas Solingen (and its factories) were what we might now call “end users”. In that the steel that they used was most likely in the form of smaller billets, from I would imagine a number of steel makers that could be used to make knives, swords, and daggers. With some of it (in theory at least) being made to RZM specifications. With a very dedicated collector on a now non-existent forum, who had some daggers sent out for a professional (relatively non-intrusive) metallurgical analysis which yielded some surprising (to me at least) results. FP

[Frogprince]

................. Hitler himself has quoted Krupps name during a Hitler youth rally, in one of his speeches describing that " The youth must be as tough as Krupp steel"..................

Some additional factors: Solingen sword makers were in business long before Krupp began its operations, and at one time were "Sword/blade makers to the world" when its export activities are taken into account. With over the years imports of iron ore one of the secrets of some of its success, and some 19th century blades from Solingen even being labeled as using a superior quality steel. And a blade is not just raw steel from a steel mill. Because it has to be made into something and there are also the different strengthening processes to be considered in addition to its physical composition, which is the responsibility of the blade maker. Likewise Krupp grew from humble beginnings, and was something of an innovator in manufacturing a commercial grade stainless steel early in the 20th century (pre - WW I). Building on its earlier success with a new type of hardened steel armor plate which earned the firm a worldwide reputation - with Hitler undoubtedly making a comparison to Krupp as an inspiration for the assembled Hitlerjugend. FP

[big ned]

There are currently over 3,500 different types of steel that have been developed over the years for inumerable uses, so it's a massive subject to cover. I think it's fair to say though that the 2 types Larry specifically refers to have been improved upon beyond recognition since their use in the early to mid 20th century.

An interesting fact is that if they were to build the Eiffel Tower today, they would need 66% less steel to do so, due to the improvements in strength, hardness, malleability and weight saving properties etc. that have been improved on since when it was originally constructed.

Ned.

[zwerge]

If the Titanic had been built with modern steel it probably would not have had such a big gash from the iceberg in it`s hull....JMHO....Pete.

[Thanatos]

If the Titanic had been built with modern steel it probably would not have had such a big gash from the iceberg in it`s hull....JMHO....Pete.

The steel in Titanics hull was enbrittled due to poor production I believe.It cracked open due to the impact and cold.
Similar to some high carbon tool/wearplate steels,hard but brittle.Not ideal for ship's hulls.
Cheers
Dave

[Danmark]

The steel in Titanics hull was enbrittled due to poor production I believe.It cracked open due to the impact and cold.
Similar to some high carbon tool/wearplate steels,hard but brittle.Not ideal for ship's hulls.
Cheers
Dave

Lets all hope then that Clive Palmer's TITANIC II uses non-embrittled steel!!!!!!!
Dan