Help with Soviet Helmet

[Datrus]

Here is some more very valuable info from the user "mixer" from Izhevsk, Russia.

Part of my post: The LMZ stamp means Leningradsky Metallichesky Zavod or in Russian Ленинградский Металлический Завод. Some call it Lysva, Lysma. Don't know why.

Regards

Lars

Mixers answer

Dear Lars, your knowledge of the LMZ, alas, totally incompetent. It's not your fault, it is our common problem. Helmets collectors in Russia, having access to archival documents, has not yet been able to initiate the publication of details about the production of steel helmets in Russia and the USSR. They prefer to keep certain information confidential and share them only in their small community. In truth, I too am in that way. Listen to Dom - he is quite competent. LMZ - Lyvensky metallurgical plant. City Lysva is in the Perm region in the Urals. This factory was one of two Soviet plants that produced steel helmets in the 20th century. In Leningrad, made only ersatz samples during the siege, and M38 helmets for civil defense. And not at the Leningrad Metall Plant. It was a factory "Red Dawn" (Krasnaya Zarya).

[Dimas]

We had discussion about that factory before Лысьвенский металлургич� �ский завод — Википедия
But actually the name of the factory before was named [I] "ЗИ"[ZI]- За Индустриализацию(For Industrialisation)
It's could be seen on the early M 36 helmets

Dom, 1947 year helmet is a rare bird

[Datrus]

I really got to improve on my Russian language ...

[Adrian Stevenson]

Click on the link Lars:

Google Translate

Cheers, Ade.

[Datrus]

Thanks Ade. I still have to improve though. I have a friend here from Britain. Took him 3 years to learn it on a beginners level.

[Dean]

Nice ones guys! Here's mine>
~Dean

[Dimas]

Jusr a quote from the @-mail messages Robert Clawson wrote to this factory after the discussions about his book:


U menya net Russky alfabyet ne moem computor. Mozhet byt u vasest kto nybut chitat angliski yazyk. I am the author of a book on Russian and Soviet combat helmets. I think that I made a big mistake in describing the producer's stamp on many SSh-39s and SSh-40. I had been told that LMZ meant Leningrad Metallurgical Factory. I have just learned of your firm's role in war production during the Great Patriotic War. If it is true that the LMZ marked in the inside of Soviet wartime helmets meant that it was produced at your firm, I will make a correction to my own web-site and try to alert the many collectors now interested in Soviet helmets of my error. I was told by a man from Perm that you have a museum that includes some of the helmets made there. Thank your for any assistance that you can provide me for this important
historical question.

Prof. Dr. Robert W. Clawson
rclawson@kent.edu


Ответ:
21 октября 2005 года

Dear Professor Dr. Robert W. Clawson, it is true that Soviet helmets
were produced only at our factory during the Great Patriotic War. The
producer's stamp LMZ means Lysva Metallurgical Plant.
There is really the museum at our plant. You can see the helmet and
get historical information about its production there. If you need
some specific information, please, let us know. We'll do our best to
help you.

--
Best regards, Dmitry Matosian
Information dept.

[Dimas]

Входящее:
24 октября 2005 года

Privyet Dmitry!

Thank you for your quick response to my question about LMZ having
manufactured combat helmets during the Great Patriotic War. Russian and
Soviet helmets have become of great interest to collectors and because
there was very little known about the technical details, I wrote the book linked to my web-site below. I relied on information given to me by Russian collectors and without questioning what seemed likely to me, I identified a number of production stamps and made the very great mistake of repeating the myth that LMZ stood for Leningrad Metallurgical factory. Thank you for confirming that LMZ is from Lysva.

I also would like your permission to use the photos from your web-site on my own site when I confess to my very bad mistake. I would like to show what Lysva now looks like and what it produces. I will also explain some of the history of the firm as explained on your firms excellent site. I will also be writing an article for a military collectors' magazine, correcting the mistake and would like you permission to reproduce the photos and information for that article.

Do you know approximately how many helmets LMZ produced? Also, can you tell which models (M-36 Khalkingolka, SSh-39 and SSh-40) were produced there. I have 4 LMZ SSh-40 helmets myself, and one of them is stamped from 1948. Am I right that LMZ continued making helmets after the war ended?

It is possible to find wartime helmets from other producers (Red October in Stalingrad, for instance) but LMZ seems to have produced by far the vast majority of helmets during the war. Along with the other armaments and such things as the Katyushas, LMZ has a very proud heritage in helping to eliminate the Fascist threat to the world. I would like to do my part to make that role better known to Americans and Western Europeans.

I am a retired professor of European military studies at Kent State
University in the state of Ohio near Lake Erie. I studied on exchange at Moscow State University, faculty of law, in 1966, gathering material for my doctoral dissertation. As a hobby, I collect Soviet and Russian combat helmets (I have at least one of each ever used except the M-28 - like a slightly larger French M-15 but made entirely in the Soviet Union), Soviet uniforms, and Russian and Soviet firearms. I even have a Maxim. I have traveled widely in the old Soviet Union but have never been in the Ural region (of course, for many years, it was closed). I do hope to visit there some day.

Many Thanks,

Bob


Ответ:
26 октября 2005 года

Dear Bob,

Of course, you may use the photos and information from our firm's
site. We are going to renew our web-site soon and supply it with
English-speaking version. Also you may use some information from
Lysva's web-site (www.lysva.ru).
I sent your letters and questions to the man, who will answer you in
the near future.

Best regards,
Dmitry Matosian


1 ноября 2005 года

Here is the answer:

Dear Mr.Clawson,
We thank you for your interest shown to military history of Lysva
Metallurgical Works.
Lysva Metallurgical Works had long-term experience in manufacture of helmets. As early as 1916-1919 our works produced steel helmets for firemen.
Development work on manufacturing helmets in different modifications was carried out at the factory from 1932 to 1940.
From 1940 to 1950 Lysva Metallurgical Works produced SSH-40 helmets.
Up to the middle of 1942 helmets were produced also by Stalingrad
Metallurgical Works "Red October", and after the beginning of
Stalingrad Defense only by Lysva Metallurgical Works which within the period of the war of 1941-1945 has made more than 10 million helmets.
For radical improvement of production methods on individual protection of soldiers of the Red Army (namly helmets) four workers have been awarded with the State premium of the USSR.
For work during the Great Paitriotic War Lysva Metallurgical Works has been awarded with Lenin's orden (1942) and with Domestic War orden of the first grade (1945).

--
Best regards, Dmitry Matosian
Information dept.


Входящее:
7 ноября 2005 года

Privyet Dmitry!

Thank you very much indeed for the important information regarding the central role played by LMZ in the manufacture of combat helmets. I have another question that perhaps you can answer for me before I write the material to go on my web-site.

I have included two scans of the manufacturer's stamp in SSh-40 helmets in my collection. I used both in my book, wrongly attributing them to a "Leningrad Metallurgical Factory..." The 1941 stamp is obviously a wartime stamp. What do you think about the 1943 stamp? You will note that it is a different LMZ design with the letters overlapping each other. Is the overlapping stamp actually from 1943, or might it be from a post-war helmet - 1948 - with the "3" really an altered "8..." Among helmet collectors
wartime helmets are much more valuable than postwar, so altering the date might result in a higher price being paid.

I know that helmet stamps were either changed or simply omitted in the post-war era. Did LMZ use the second type stamp only in the post-war period, or was it altered during the war itself?

I should mention that the incorrect information about the production of helmets during the war was provided by the Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow and from Russian collectors.

Also, I would like to ask you if you would be willing to read both my
web-site essay and the article that I will write for the journal Military
Collector, in order to insure accuracy?

Thanks you for your invaluable assistance.

Warm Regards,

Bob





Ссылка http://www.personal.kent.edu/~rclawson/RussianHelmets/


Ответ:
29 ноября 2005 года

Dear Bob,

Sorry for the delay in answering, but we spent much time ourselves to analyze modifications of our manufacturer's stamps during wartime and post-wartime.
The first stamp (picture 1) was used from February, 15th, 1937.
From 1942 and during the Great Patriotic War our plant was indicated
700 and there weren't any specific manufacturer's stamps.
The stamp with overlapping letters (picture 2) was confirmed at July,
26th, 1946. And later the letter's lines became broken (picture 3) to
defer our plant's stamp from the stamp of Leningrad Metallurgical Factory.
You see, the helmets, dated 1943, couldn't have the stamp of Lysva
Metallurgical Factory. So your supposition about stamp's falsification
is right. And your helmet with overlapping stamp seems to be made in 1948.

Best regards,
Dmitry Matosian

[Dimas]

I do not have a time to translate, but here is a interesting link http://encyclopaedia.lysva.ru/5/5-6.pdf

[Dean]

thanks Dimas!
~Dean