Pilotka from Espenlaub 1943 dated

[Bagration]

Hello Dimas,

Thanks for your answer, I will explain my point to you (with no hard feeling or anything).

If we take a closer look at the same angle on this pictures (click on the picture for a better view)


I've made some marks to make it more easy to understand.
The ink would have started in the red square if we take for indication the rusty damage in a blue square.
On the red part there is no rust whatsoever the paint was all clean here and no ink handwritten can be seen. So yeah, i guess you will tell me it appeared once we have put your magic product but ... it's really impressive !



I have kept higher resolution picture you can take a look here





And for last part how can the ink can be on/above the rust of the scratches ?




But yeah ... maybe we can make appeared invisible handwritten just like an invisible ink I don't know much about this ...

If that exist it's really amazing and should be make on every helmet that we seen (and other stuff for sure) how do you find the good spot to apply it ? You put it all on the helmet and see the reaction ?

So once again i repeat no hard feeling or anything but you can easly understand that ink marks that come back like this is more than a surprise for everyone.

[Gabriele]

"you can easly understand that ink marks that come back like this is more than a surprise for everyone"

Not for me: I had similar experience with items (not Soviet and not much older than an ssh36), even in better conditions. It could be the result of copying pencil and external agents. But I'm not a chemist.

"magic product": I believe it's simply an alkaline solution.

I checked the pictures, to my eyes is difficult to say if the ink goes over the rust and scratches. But I'm with the telephone and I could be wrong, my eyes are not that good.

But I have a question: why espenlaub, who obviously has a very wide and deep experience about rkka (in fact, they should be able to make such "forgeries"), should take such a risk in counterfeiting an ssh36 by adding a fake signature above a rusty area, with scratches?
It seems a bit strange and a useless risk to me.

That said, we should not forget that our main topic was also the pilotka of Llegion

[pupapup]

1) "Yes, the helmet was bought without the chinstrap, but we had one nice original set to complete the helmet. This chinstrap for the M36 helmet is really rare and hard to find. Why not do that? Don't see any problem." - If you don't see the problem, and it doesn't matter at all, why not disclose that fact in the listing? The answer is because it does matter. Even if it matters different amounts to different people, it matters.
2) “Yes, the helmet was not found in Estonia... Just a human mistake. More to say, it doesn't have any effect on the item's price.” – I can see mixing up $5 items, but this is listed for more than $1,000 euros, rare to mix up facts on things priced at that level. Also, to me provenance always has an effect on price, or at the very least on desirability.
3) “Also, about the history of the person, it probably belongs to is our suppose. You can believe it or not. That also doesn't make the helmet's price higher.” - Here’s your own description from the listing: “Fine example of a M-36 Soviet Russian steel helmet, barn found in Estonia, named - " Белогугуров Жора". Actually found only one person with the name Belogurov Georgiy. Who was a Red Fleet servicemen, fought hard at the defence line of Tallinn in 1941 year. He was a boxer and won a championship in army contests. In 1941 he was wounded in close combat. Survived the war with officer's rank. Picture of him is available.” Are you really saying that this description of the owner doesn’t help the price? Again, this type of provenance always helps price, any collector of anything knows that. If it doesn't make the price higher, why does the title of the for-sale listing have the words “With History” in it? The answer is because it does make the price higher. My uncle's WWII M1 helmet and Audie Murphy's signed WWII M1 helmet have greatly different values.

For anyone that wants to see the original listing, it’s still archived, here it is:
M 36, late war Khalhngolga steel helmet with history- Steel Helmets

Also, were Russian soldiers who wanted to name their helmets doing so in pencil that easily disappears? Why would they do that?

Kevin

[Bagration]

"you can easly understand that ink marks that come back like this is more than a surprise for everyone"

Not for me: I had similar experience with items (not Soviet and not much older than an ssh36), even in better conditions. It could be the result of copying pencil and external agents. But I'm not a chemist.

"magic product": I believe it's simply an alkaline solution.

I call that a magic product it's not every day that you can reaveled hidden signature by applying "water" to a metal surface.
That say ... Jesus did turn water into wine so ... everything can be made i guess.

(please don't take that text seriously )

As i said on my last answer if it trully work it's an impressive trick that every collector should know.

I checked the pictures, to my eyes is difficult to say if the ink goes over the rust and scratches. But I'm with the telephone and I could be wrong, my eyes are not that good.

For me it appears really on this one, if you zoom in, you can see the blue on the scratch were the paint is removed.

But I have a question: why espenlaub, who obviously has a very wide and deep experience about rkka (in fact, they should be able to make such "forgeries"), should take such a risk in counterfeiting an ssh36 by adding a fake signature above a rusty area, with scratches?
It seems a bit strange and a useless risk to me.

That said, we should not forget that our main topic was also the pilotka of Llegion

I prefer to give judgement and caution to the item and not at the reputation of the seller ... I've learned that the hard way i must say.
So a pro can be serious all he want, buying blindly an item because he is serious is not enough for me.

EDIT : Thanks for the link Pupapup

[Marcel Banziger]

Let me start with saying I am a satisfied returning customer from Espenlaub (and new order is on its way to me as we speak) and also will buy from them in the future. But, as Bagration just showed in post # 24 it clearly shows a signature added on top of a sctratchmark/chip. A signature which was not there on the initial photos. Can with some chemistry a name made visible again? Probably. I am not a chemist so I can't say anything about that. In this specific situation, where a name is written over a chip is something I don't buy. I would believe if with some chemistry a name can be brought back and made visible again and where parts of the name would be missing on the spots where scratches and chips are. But here the full name continues over these scratches and chips as if these scratches and chips are not there. And that is simply impossible. No hard feelings to anyone but to me this specific situation is just fraudulent.

[Chrish124]

I am impressed at this solvents ability to completely delete rust and leave 80 year old paint in such good condition. I would love to know where to find such an amazing product. If anyone knows, do tell.

[Dimas]

I am impressed at this solvents ability to completely delete rust and leave 80 year old paint in such good condition. I would love to know where to find such an amazing product. If anyone knows, do tell.

There really different way to restore the color, hand writings etc also for cloth, metal, wood and leather. I've learned a lot by this way. I've even
restored the handwriting on the papers found with soldiers for identification which is over 70 years was underground


Here are some example pictures. But, to preserve the hands you need to have the special rubber armor gloves

[Bagration]

YouTube

There is one video like this I remember.

But he only use water i guess since when he opened it you can arleady see the written part.

Impressive to see how some items can be found like if it was in the ground since yesterday

YouTube

Videos don't seem to work right now so here some screens

[Dimas]

I've help to such guys, they don't know all the specifics

YouTube

There is one video like this I remember.

But he only use water i guess since when he opened it you can arleady see the written part.

Impressive to see how some items can be found like if it was in the ground since yesterday


Videos don't seem to work right now so here some screens

[llegion]

Thank you everyone for your input. Now that I have checked the pilotka more clearly and sprayed it with some water I can see that it is actually 1946 dated. I don’t think it’s a very nice move deceiving your customers like that and labeling the pilotka as wartime when it really isn’t. The pictures showed a clear 1943 stamp. Before my experience with Espenlaub was excellent but know I have to decide whether I want to be a future customer of yours’.