Thoughts on Identifying an "Interesting" Buckle

[Guido]

David,

I have no really good idea, if your buckle is a usual DLV/ RLB/ early Luftwaffe buckle or not.

Just want to express that I like the eagles head wich is so distinct and a feast for the eyes against to the other primitive heads adorning the majority of this type.

Regards,
Guido

[Kurt D]

This eagle looks very close to the ones seen on the Diplomatic/Gov't Official officers buckles. Can't see how that could be on an EM buckle but maybe the company that produced the GO and DO buckles made a mistake and used the wrong die to produce this one. In any event a most interesting buckle. Would love to hear more comments.

Regards,

Bill

Bill, Interesting that you make the connection to Diplo/gvt. official. That was my first thought too. In 1942 dress regulations for the German foreign office (the Auswärtiges Amt) it says that lower ranks wear a black leather belt with "Koppelschloss". Koppelschloss translates as belt buckle of course, but usually denotes a box buckle rather than an open-claw buckle. This "Koppelschloss" is neither illustrated nor described, so could be anything, a blank buckle or, indeed an open-claw in spite of the verbiage. And even if a distinctive buckle was intended, it's quite another question whether it was actually made or worn. You will recall that is the situation with the RMbO brocade and box buckle. These are even illustrated in dress regulations, but production was deferred to after the "Endsieg".

On balance, and as David has said, we are probably looking at a variation DLV/RLB, but it is always exciting to speculate!
Best regards, Kurt

[David North]

Dear Rob, Bill, Guido and Kurt

Thankyou for your combined expertise and comments toward this "interesting" buckle. How I wish that it could be clearly and unambiguously identified as an otherwise non documented - Foreign Office employees.

For the moment at least, it sits somewhat uncomfortably and perhaps with a shunned status as the "Black Sheep", of the DLV.

Regards,

David

[lach470]

"...... it sits somewhat uncomfortably and perhaps with a shunned status...."

Oh my! Send it over here - it will sit quite comfortably without any shunning!

There is no doubt that it's an original piece.....wether it be gvt. F.Office or DLV - I certainly appreciate it for what it is: a unique looking buckle that is absolutely gorgeous!

Cheers David!

Rob

[Buckle1]

great comments guys. It is a very interesting buckle and if one looks in the Diplo. section of Angolia's book there are two examples of this exact eagle. I find it hard to believe that the one David has is a DLV/RLB buckle. First it is the only one I have ever seen and I gather that is the case for all of you. Is it a lower ranking Dipl./Gov't official buckle?? If so it has to be an extremly rare buckle as no one has come across any others and what about the other eagle style used by them. Not seen either in an EM buckle. I thinhk this thing is an abberation. Possibly as I mentioned made by mistake by the company that produced DLV's and Dipl. buckles as well and got the dies mixed up-produced a few and caught their mistake. Destroyed the error ones but this one got through. I know this is a real STREEEEEAAATCH but I cannot come up with any other explanation that make s sense. Until another is found . As stated there is no question the buckle is good. Just what it is.

Regards,

Bill
.

[Kurt D]

Would like to show one of these I've just received.

Kind regards
Kurt

[Ben Evans]

I have just paid for one from the USA, I will post it when it arrives

[yellow12]

Hello ,

in my opinion it is one of many manufacturing variation to DLV/RLB buckles .

Is not it true that the diplomats have buckles a raised swastika ?

[Wilhelm Saris]

According to the "Reichsgesetzblatt", part 1 from March 12, 1940 in relation to the uniform
for officials generally to be worn, the included drawing/image for the buckle shows an eagle
with straight wings and an eagle which looks to its right wing within a laurel wreath. The head
for the eagle was officially somewhat raised above the wings.The buckle is silver for most of the
ranks, for persons as Ministerialdirigent upwards the buckle ist golden colored. In the magazine
"Schwert ind Spaten" from Mai 1939 it is described as:
silver colored buckle with in the middle a golden colored eagle within a laurel wreath. For higher
ranks the buckle is all golden. In December 1939 it is said as: silver buckle with eagle within
laurel wreath; Higher ranks all golden. It is speculated the mistake silver with golden eagle was
made in behalf of the buckle for the diplomatic corps. Or maybe this was intended in the beginning? This type of eagle - with the head above the wings and looking to its right wing - is shown as article-number 27263 as addendum page 52c from F.W. Assmann, in relation to articles for officials and diplomats (Beamten und Diplomaten). Note that only one buckle was shown for both groups!

For officials from the diplomatic corps another regulation existed, but as far is known the buckle
had the same form of eagle, anyway looking to its right wing. In a letter from November 27, 1942
from the Foreign Office in an addendum about buckles was said:
a) officials of the highest ranks (höheren Dienst, groups 1 through 5), golden 45 mm buckle with 1.0 cm wide laurel wreath;
b) officials of high ranks (gehobenen Dienst, groups 1 and 2), silver buckle;
c) officials of middle class (mittleren Dienst), silver buckle;
d) officials of lower class (einachen Dienst), black leather belt with rectangular buckle, silvered color. As the other buckles did have an eagle that did look to its right wing, this one won't have been different. So it would not have been an eagle looking at its left wing as DLV or Reichsluftschutzbund. Due to the war it will have been as: auf Kriegsdauer zurückgestellt.

In buckle-books one observes buckles at so-called officials and diplomatic brocades that have the eagle looking to the left wing. It is my opinion that here a wrong buckle has been attached ( in the form for the DLV and RLB), due to lack of knowledge. This could already have been done shortly after the war and so the mistake remained!

[Ben Evans]

So Wim, are saying that this buckle actually belongs to the Diplomatic corps and not the DLV/RLB? If thats the case alot of people have been misguided for a very ling time lol