7.92 carcano arrrrgh!

[lithgow]

It's difficult to see why the Germans would have bothered to convert the rifles-they had captured the factories that made them and their ammo as well as most Italian army stocks of these in 1943 so there would be no real need to use further industrial effort to convert perfectly serviceable magazine rifles into single shot weapons of dubious utility-the Germans were quite used to having a variety of captured guns and different types of ammunition in service with the many different echelons of units-not ideal from a supply point of view but as I said a more effective mag rifle was more valuable than a single shot weapon.

[bigmacglenn]

No way did the Germans convert these rifles...I agree with our friend Lithgow's post....
Glenn

[PRE]

@Pat.. The assumption of it being a volkssturm rifle comes from this rifle being coined a last ditch weapon. That statement alone makes one presume they were converted before the war ended. But the term is always said and never proved anywhere. Speculation for your view is very popular as well. I have no doubt they were sold to Arab nations after the war but the time of conversion still remains a mystery. Without some documentation I suppose every answer is plausible at this point.

There's really no mystery or voodoo about their origins, so I don't know why we'd have to resort to speculation of who did what. OP's carbine is of the type converted in the 1950s-1960s in Italy, and for a Middle Eastern market. The Krieghoff conversions are wholly different, having very recognizable aspects which the post-war conversions lack entirely. It's a mistake to lump the two types together, as they are very different, and from different periods.

There IS documentation for the Krieghoff conversions; these date to early 1945. One need only read the relevant chapters of Arendell's and Woodrum's 'Italy's Battle Rifle' and Wolfgang Riepe's 'Il Novantuno Mannlicher Carcano. Das italienische Waffensystem Modell 1891.' Another solid and reliable source is Riccio's 'Italian Small Arms of the First and Second World Wars.'

Dismissing the German-converted Carcanos because 'it just doesn't make sense' is definitely taking the wrong route. I have several foreign produced, German-captured rifles and carbines which the German depots invested (probably) significant time and effort into to mark small parts, drill stocks for bolt take down ferrules, blue the bolts, polish the rear sight, inlet the stock for a sling slot and re-number other components. This makes no logistical sense to us now, but lo and behold, that's exactly what they did, and during wartime. Whether we like it/agree with it or not doesn't matter, they did it, and these same rifles and carbines are proof of that. Does it make a difference to the end user? No. But neither does it make sense tying up large amounts of money, personnel, logistics, trains and support systems to keep death camps operating in the waning months of the war when those same resources could have been included in the war effort, where it was needed most.

[bigmacglenn]

Thanks for an Educational Thread...
cheers, Glenn

[UK Cousin]

I didn't mean to group in the krieghoff conversion with the type I have. I have seen the krieghoff conversion marks on these rifles. On the type I have would you happen to know what the "S" on the bolt handle stands for, pre?

[Larboard]

;-) Could have swore it was the Carcano... MAS is a cool rifle, but strange. The Carcano actually bears some similarities to the Mosin, the magwell at a glance anyway.

[lokvar]

If you have read the web page i have attached www.il91.it and search in moschetto 38/7,92 ...
The S on the lever mean that it was made afther war...Without S are in war time....

[PRE]

I didn't mean to group in the krieghoff conversion with the type I have. I have seen the krieghoff conversion marks on these rifles. On the type I have would you happen to know what the "S" on the bolt handle stands for, pre?

The large stamped 'S' is usually seen on the top of the receiver, and is believed to mean 'Spitzer,' an indication of the use of pointed German 7.92x57mm cartridges. This can also be found with less frequency on the bolt.

[UK Cousin]

Thanks to lokvar, glenn, Lithgow, Pre and the sources provided I am 100% convinced these were converted after the war. I am also 100% convinced there's a lot of misinformation on these rifles throughout the web, individuals and a couple of books. Thank you guys so much for answering a nagging question I've had for 2 years! My conclusion is that a lot of these rumors stated as fact were probably enhanced by the desire of dealers to unload these cheap rifles. When in doubt, always follow the money trail.. My next and only desire for a 7.92 carcano will be to find a krieghoff conversion. Thank you all again.