Dovetail Bren prices

[Scott1975]

Hello all, i'm just wondering if anybody knows what the going rate is for a Uk deac 1940 Enfield Dovetail Bren gun at the moment. I can't seem to find any for sale. The only ones being offered are all standard Mk1/2/3 guns but no dovetails. Regards

[Grimebox]

£650?

Deactivated 1939 Dated Dovetail Bren Gun - Allied Deactivated Guns - Deactivated Guns

[m3bobby]

£650 is probably just shy of where current prices are, unfortunately that gun sold in January this year and it wasn't 100% correct as it had a Mk1* barrel nut and lower. There is another trader selling a 1940 Mk1 for £1000, it also isn't 100% correct and for that money it will take quite a while to sell.

[Time Bandit]

as it had a Mk1* barrel nut and lower

Chris,
How do you tell the difference between the MK1 and MK1* lower? Mine is a 1940 'double d' with the markings on the left hand side (Serial No. E6477, 4th stage intermediate??) and the upper still has it's original numbering, the barrel nut is a later one and the markings have been scrubbed and electric pencil matched to the main serial number, the lower is also electric pencil matched to the main serial number but it doesn't look like there has been an original number scrubbed (new, unserialled replacement, numbered by the armourer?? Did this happen or would they of just used a lower from another gun and scrub the markings?)
Since it's not the original lower I'm not sure how I tell the difference between the correct early MK1 type or a later MK1 version?

[m3bobby]

If you have a look at this original Bren abandoned at Dunkirque in 1940, you can see the fancy machining around the trigger pin, safety etc. This same machining is also found on the Mk3 lowers but the Mk3 didn't have the extra section in front of the forward mounting pin that the Mk1 had.

[Time Bandit]

Cheers for that! I've had a look at mine and going by the pic it looks like mine has a later MKI type lower then, as it's pretty much flat around the pins like my MKII is.
When did they actually change over to this later style lower? With mine being made towards the end of the Double Dovetail run it's lost a lot of it's fancy machine work as seen on the early guns so would it of had the early style lower or would the later type of been in use by then?

[m3bobby]

Hi Mike, I can't be 100% sure of the changeover as there aren't many matching early Brens around. I do know that E2348 is the latest matching gun I have on record with the early style lower and F3335 is the earliest matching Mk1 modified gun (4th stage) on record and yours is pretty much in the middle of these two. I'd hazard a guess that the change in machining to the lower may have occurred around the same time as the 4th stage (Deletion of DD) yours being a 3rd stage.

Your lower has been renumbered, you can see where a flat has been machined, removing the old number and the new number electro pencilled on. An original lower wont have that flat and under the stamped serial number will be various other stamps like JI and examiner numbers on an Inglis lower and a steel batch number on Enfield lowers. I have only ever seen one original un-numbered lower and with out the serial number stampings it was quite easy to see the steel batch number and examiner stamps. If the lower has had the original number removed it is still possible to identify the maker by observation, the easiest way I find is to look for a set of numbers on the top side of the lower in front of the forward locating pin, usually in the format AB 1234, this would indicate Inglis manufacture as the Enfield lowers were never marked in that position.

[Time Bandit]

Cheers Chris!

I'll investigate further and see what I can see near the forward pin. You've cleared one thing up for me that it's a 3rd stage, for some reason I had it in my mind that this type was a 4th stage and then it was the MKI modified after that so at least now I know!

[Time Bandit]

One quick lower removal later and a deeks at it and we have...

No markings on the lower at all around the front locating pin, either on the top, bottom or sides. there is an Enfield 'D' (on the external side) and a broad arrow (internal side) marking on the cover that opens to let the spent cases out (not sure what it's proper name is) so I'm guessing it's probably an Enfield lower, albeit a later MKI Modified style? The selector switch is actually JI marked for Inglis so this has been changed at some point? The barrel is a MKI*

It's obviously been through some armoury somewhere where it's been renumbered, I've no idea where though. I can't see any foreign markings on it but I suspect that it's from another country other than the UK, it was deact in 2008 so I can't see the UK hanging on to a .303 Bren until 2008??

[KradSpam]

I just sold mine a few weeks ago, I already miss her looking at all these. Just too big to display for me though.