Early production M1 Carbine

[guns ltd]

M1 carbines are the hardest firearm to collect.( so many Variations) We have the hard core collector that wants them all correct as first issued. and then we have the guy that just likes carbines. Well, I am sorry, I am both. i have been collecting since I was 16 years old. Used to have a friend buy them for me before I was of age to buy them myself. Steve if you have any questions about carbines let me know. I will try to answer them as best I can. I am no expert, but can find the answers through my carbine network.
Again thank for sharing your carbine with us.

John

[Mike]

John I think your advice to weld the chamber & barrel is way overboard & plays into the hands of anti gun lobby groups here in the US. Firearm ownership is limited to ones lifetime & then it is hopefully sold or past on to another family member. These current laws which require the bastardizing of an historical artifact only ruin the chance for future collectors which (hopefully) will someday live in a government with less restrictions. To weld the safety is bad enough, but at least a trigger guard is less damaging to the entire firearm. I have rebuilt/restored at least 15 carbines & a few began as a stripped barreled receiver. It wouldn't take much for our politicians to reinterpret the "Right To Keep and Bear Arms" to read "Keep and Bear Arms, so long as the ones you KEEP can never be fired again." We fought and won a REVOLUTION against the oppressive Colonial British rule for the RIGHT to keep our FUNCTIONAL firearms. If we hadn't we might be looking at flintlocks with WELDED locks!! Harry the Mole do the very least minimal requirement specified by your CURRENT governments CURRENT laws & NO MORE! Regards, Mike.

[guns ltd]

Mike:
You missed the point.
I have seen this done to military firearms here in the USA before on class 3 weapons. It was done to ATF requirements. I do not agree with it as it Destroys very Valuable collector firearms. I am the most pro-gun person anyone would ever know here. From what my friends in the UK have to Endure is what it is for the moment. I just asked why they only did this to demil a firearm. that is all.
John

John I think your advice to weld the chamber & barrel is way overboard & plays into the hands of anti gun lobby groups here in the US. Firearm ownership is limited to ones lifetime & then it is hopefully sold or past on to another family member. These current laws which require the bastardizing of an historical artifact only ruin the chance for future collectors which (hopefully) will someday live in a government with less restrictions. To weld the safety is bad enough, but at least a trigger guard is less damaging to the entire firearm. I have rebuilt/restored at least 15 carbines & a few began as a stripped barreled receiver. It wouldn't take much for our politicians to reinterpret the "Right To Keep and Bear Arms" to read "Keep and Bear Arms, so long as the ones you KEEP can never be fired again." We fought and won a REVOLUTION against the oppressive Colonial British rule for the RIGHT to keep our FUNCTIONAL firearms. If we hadn't we might be looking at flintlocks with WELDED locks!! Harry the Mole do the very least minimal requirement specified by your CURRENT governments CURRENT laws & NO MORE! Regards, Mike.

[Mike]

Sorry if I misunderstood you: however, your statement as read clearly suggests that the gentlemen look into the receiver/barrel welding process. It's good to know you meant otherwise & support firearms rights here or anywhere. Sorry to tie up this man's thread with a transition to gun rights & laws, but I guess this was as good a place as any. Will be interesting to see his parts breakdown of individual manufacture's codes. That's a great part of the fun in collecting these or any gun, as is the quest to identify them. I know the forum will help him with this, but I am an avid believer in research books regarding the subject. Every collector should have at his hands a good library of actual books. If he's interested I or someone else could recommend a list of selected titles/authors. Regards, Mike

[HARRY THE MOLE]

Hi Mike,

I get the impression from your postings that you think I have some control over the deactivation process. I do not, and I have to accept the weapon as it is. The bolt is cut along its length on the underside and welded in place. The breech is pinned and the barrel slotted for most of its length. There is also a steel rod welded inside. None of this work is visible unless you remove the magazine or the stock.

For varying reasons I have no interest in firing guns. I tried to get back into it a few years ago, but I found it boring firing at targets no more than 50 yards away on the indoor. I couldn't be bothered going to the outdoor ranges. I am passionately interested in weapons, and at one time had a very large collection of all manner of WW1 machine guns. But as I have already said before, it really does not bother me one bit that my weapons do not work.

I have had this M1 Carbine in bits as far as I can due to the welding. The stock was rotten in places, especially around the recoil plate screw hole. That thin section of wood just crumbled away. The top guard is a two rivet WW2 type, and the only markings I can find on it are the letters JSC? But I'm not even sure about that. The receiver is SAGINAW S'G' and is serial number 3229*** which I am told dates it between April and July 1943. The Barrel is UNDERWOOD and is dated 6-43. the barrel band is marked with a D within a diamond. No markings I can see to the recoil plate. The receiver is stamped with a 5. The magazine release is marked with a large M followed by a small WA tipped on its side. Rear sight is stamped I R Co. The stock carries no markings at all to the left side that I can see. There is a possible U stamp to the front end of the woodwork around the area where the barrel rests.

My knowledge is very limited on these carbines, and I actually purchased it on impulse. I suppose it is just like any other miitary weapon which has seen much service. It would have had replacement parts put on it from other weapons which were beyond use! The woodwork on my example is not really as good as it may look in the pictures. There are several issues with rot on the inside surfaces. So if anyone knows where I can get a replacement set of WW2 woodwork in good condition just let me know.

Steve.

[pitfighter]

Nice M1 -

Ref. Deactivation, as long as the laws never change (for better or worse), I guess this is as close as you can get and their investment potential is solid.

In the US the NFA list dictates the amount of full-auto civilian legal firearms - if the specifications of the list changed, ie, more firearms allowed in civilian hands, or less, you would see an awful lot of people potentially losing large sums of money.

Harry Mole - Steve - please send me info. on your book, sir.
figgypix(at)yahoo.com

If it is available, even in galleys, I will buy/pay expenses.

This is an era I am very interested in.
(I'll PM, too.)

Thanks,

Pit.