I missed out on an AA sight a few weeks ago. Was outbid at the last minute. Would love an anti-aircraft tripod as well. Both seem to be rare as hen's teeth when you're looking for them!by BlackCat1982
B.B.
I missed out on an AA sight a few weeks ago. Was outbid at the last minute. Would love an anti-aircraft tripod as well. Both seem to be rare as hen's teeth when you're looking for them!
B.B.
awesome gun congrats
There are only so many times that you can cock and dry fire the gun before it gets rather boring. As long as it looks the part and the deactivation process hardly shows, then it's fine. It is only since 1988 that you have been able to own such weapons without any form of licence anyway. Prior to that they could be legally owned as a fully functioning semi-auto weapon on a shotgun certificate if the rifling had been removed. Back in the 70's there was a firm that specialised in converting ANY automatic weapon to the then shotgun specs. There were even Sten guns fitted with 24 inch barrels.
Hi Harry
So you're saying that pre 1988 we didn't have deactivated weapons as such in the UK, only guns changed to be subject to a shotgun licence?
[edit] - sorry if this seems a dumb question, but I have only been collecting deacts since the 2000s and always assumed deacts had been available since the 40s/50s (albeit with looser restrictions)...
Cheers
Last edited by MG42UK; 01-20-2019 at 11:53 AM.
Prior to 1988 there were certainly deactivated guns, but back then they were few and far between. If I recall, it was accepted in law that a firearm could be put beyond the use that it was intended by means of deactivation, but there were no specific standards of deactivation set out. Reenactors in those days tended to own their guns on shotgun certificates, and sub machine guns were usually of the Japanese replicas. As I said in my previous post, it was possible to own ANY weapon as long as it was converted to semi-auto and had a smooth bore barrel of 24 inches or more. Several reenactors built their own Mg34 replicas, there was a group in Manchester in the 1970's who had a home-brew copy of this gun. It was World Wide Arms that forced the issue on the acceptance of deactivated guns, I think it was 1988. I think the first guns they offered for sale was a batch of Indian-made SMLE rifles at £49 each. But even then there were some police forces who refused to recognise deactivated guns as legal to own. This is not hearsay either... I speak from experience. In 1989 I contacted the firearms officer at Cheshire Police HQ in Chester to ask about the legality of owning a deactivated rifle, and I was told in no uncertain terms that firearms could not be deactivated, and if I was caught with so much as a trigger off a weapon without having a firearms licence, I would be prosecuted. Needless to say, I still purchased one of the rifles anyway. But it wasn't long after, that the floodgates really opened, and all manner of weapons became available. At around that time there were only two legally owned deactivated Lewis guns in the whole of the UK, and one of them was mine. It was a battle-damaged example which had been recovered from a tank when the battlefields were being cleared in the 1920's, and I got it from Inter Arms in Manchester. I was also one of the first to own a legally deactivated Vickers machine gun. So there you have it, deactivated military weapons of the type we see these days have only been available for the past 30 years.
Cheers,
Steve
Really interesting, thanks for the insights...
A Company called from memory Panel Fire Arms from Plymouth were the first to chalenge the law advertising in Exchange a Mart. I can remember buying a a Sten Gun from them in the early 1980's from their shop in a residental area of Plymouth (Genvile Road?). They had all sorts of guns available inclouding Lewis Machine Guns. They kept getting in trouble with the Police and eventually ceased trading.
Prior to the issue of guidelines by the Home Office it was down to the Courts to decide if your weapon was adequetely deactivated (not the Police) so it was rather a grey area. Even with the definition of a Shot Gun which allowed the ownership of semi-automatic weapons some owners would weld extensions to the barrels of some weapons to make them legal. In those days the Police did not worry about what or how many Shot Gun's you had on your Licence.
It is certainly the case that the courts decided if the weapons were adequately deactivated, but the Police, acting as upholders of the law, could arrest you and charge you with illegal possession of a firearm if they were not satisfied that the gun met the required standards of deactivation. It was then up to the courts to decide if the gun was legally deactivated. It was only when World Wide Arms really started pushing the boundaries on ownership of such guns that they were gradually accepted and proper deactivation certificates were issued with each weapon. I have never forgotten the tongue-lashing at the hands of Sgt David Ithell, the firearms licencing officer for Cheshire, back in 1989. Strangely enough, that same officer came to my aid a few years later when I obtained a German WW1 Maxim Mg08 from a local military museum.
Even today the law seems to be a bit 'foggy'. I have heard horror stories of collectors having their legally deactivated arms confiscated for inspection, and having to chase the police from pillar to post to get them back. Apparently even when a deactivation certificate is present, confiscation for inspection is the norm.
It seems to depend entirely on the character of the officers involved, however. As with members of the public, there will be those familiar with deactivated weapons legislation, and those who are not. As a somewhat niche hobby, and given the current climate, it is understandable that firearms of any kind will be treated with nervousness. But all this recent messing with deactivated weapons legislation seems a waste of time to me, when black market arms in fully functional condition continue to pour in from Eastern Europe.
P.S: More photographs of the MG will be posted tomorrow. Planning on getting all of the accessories out and doing a more extensive photoshoot.
Regards, B.B.
Hello gentlemen,
Your are very lucky in UK.
In France, since the law of 2017 all new acquisition of automatic weapons is very strict: the weapon must be unfonctionnal, all mobile parts are cut & welded, no more fonctionality or dry fire, & you must declare the weapon.
Imagine a MP 40 - 43/44 or a MG 34 - 42 in such a configuration.
Best regards from Alsace , France.
Carfin.
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