Possible 7th Cav Custer carbine

[sargetom]

There is a good article on these Carbines in the latest NRA magazine "American Rifleman" August 2014. Article is short but is in the back of the magazine just inside the back cover.

[RayG]

Hi RayG, A real piece of US Military history and beautifulll presentation of photos and facts. Congratulations. You are probably aware but just in case you are not, there was a major fire across the LBH battle site a few years back and the decission was made to sweep the area for artifacts etc. Quite a lot of fired ordnance was found and some unfired as were some human remains. The sweep was carried out in a very scientific fasion with all arifact's locations plotted and recorded. Ergo, the sweep was able to ascertain the various locations of groups of troops and how the "battle" was conducted. Of greater interest to you may be the fact that every piece of ordnance was clinicaly inspected and the results logged. To cut a long story short, not so long ago a Cavalry weapon turned up in very poor condition and was inspected. It was catagoricaly proven through balistic checks and testing to have been fired at the LBH and needless to say, its value rocketed. The point of my post is to suggest to you that it may pay you to contact the authorities concerned and possibly get you weapon tested?? Further, the sweep was filmed and shown on one of the history channels over here in the UK not so long ago and it may be on U Tube?? If you have not seen it, it is well worth finding and viewing. Given the facts that your item has not been modified in accordance with US Army requirements and is in such good condition, perhaps it was found after the battle by a civilian and kept as a momento? If only artifacts could tell their own stories????????

I hope that this is of interest to you? As a matter of interest, one of my ambitions is to visit the LBH one day!

Thank you once again for showing a true piece of American Indian Wars history
Regards and best wishes Michael Ryan UK

Thanks MR, Funny that program just came on the TV and I watched it right after I read your post. I did see it a number of years ago also. It was interesting as via the spent shell casings found they were able to trace the flight of individual soldiers and groups of soldiers to were they were eventually killed.

Also I did read that American Rifleman's article also sargetom, Ray

[gagevet]

I know one of the ballistic and tool mark examiner ( Retired Nebraska State Patrol) that was there after the fire and did allot of the research. It is amazing that they can ID the guns that were used during the battle and were able to tell where they were fired from and where their bullets impacted. If they can match your gun with the collection of spent cartridges or by rifling then you have a big winner. There was a carbine that was owned by a family ranch in the area and they did ID it as being used in the battle.

[Michael Ryan]

So Ray, What are you waiting for?? Are you going to check your weapon out?? I hope to read a post from you in the near future with some good news!!!
Cheers MR

[RayG]

It appears the firing pin is broken in two inside the breech block and it won't come out. Apparently someone tried to force it out and deformed the tip of the firing pin in the process. I believe most of the comparisons were made via the firing pin impressions which would not be able to be done now because of the damage. Unless they can compare the spend cases to the chamber it's a no go. The odds are against it anyway that it probably is a 7th Cav carbine for as mentioned, the carbines were shipped in crates of 20 and contained mixed serial numbers and not in any sequence and the serial number before it and after it could be in a crate shipped to another unit.
But at least it's a correct early one and it does fit in the known block of numbers issued to the 7th and I'll never fire it even if I can replace the firing pin, Ray

[lithgow]

The damage to the firing pin is the sort of thing that an Indian or civilian who ended up with the weapon couldn't fix without a gunsmith/armourer-guns were found long after the battle discarded with ruptured shell cases stuck in the breech.

[RayG]

As far as further testing, look at the number of carbines that fall within the possible Custer serial number ranges of 17400-18400, and 21000-21600, and 32700-36400 and the 42200 range. That's a lot of carbines.
I'm sure that only if a carbine exhibited some other good evidence to suspect it may be have been used in the battle, like apparent hard Indian use, or was found in the area etc. and not just a broken firing pin, would it really be considered a candidate for further testing. Ray