Question about MK III STEN

[reneblacky]

Just remember, Never Drop one of these when loaded!!! they have a tendency to let rip
My Old Man has seen it happen! Then you have something to dance with!!!!
I've also spoken to a couple of Aussie WW2 vets and they always loaded their mags to 28 rds not the 32 to reduce the risk of a jam up, anyway they preferred the Austen in the jungle conditions of Borneo

René

[Mick]

That was true early in the war, but later on they were all modified by installing a MkV cocking handle which pushes through a hole drilled in the side of the receiver. This stopped the bolt from going back far enough to strip a round from the magazine if the gun was dropped or jumped with.

I had a brain fart one day and came up with another safety system. Why they did not use a sear disconnect safety as standard is a mystery to me. It will work on any sten.



PS you can only dance if you are alive. : )

PPS I can't dance unless I'm pissed.

[reneblacky]

That was true early in the war, but later on they were all modified by installing a MkV cocking handle which pushes through a hole drilled in the side of the receiver. This stopped the bolt from going back far enough to strip a round from the magazine if the gun was dropped or jumped with.

I had a brain fart one day and came up with another safety system. Why they did not use a sear disconnect safety as standard is a mystery to me. It will work on any sten.

My Dad was in a conscripted Dutch AA unit at that time (1951) I really can't tell you the model of offending bugger.
René

[Mick]

By that time they all had MkV safety bolt handles, but nothing is fool proof, well almost nothing

Take a look at this email I got from the RCMP with my reply below.

Dear Sir:
Your SaskSten, Sten, Mk3, Serial Number SS309CA, arrived at RCMP, Specialized Firearms Support Services Section (SFSS) by mail on 2009-09-22. Upon arrival it was removed from the shipping container and recorded prior to being placed in the queue for inspection. At this point it was noted that bolt was in the forward position and could not be moved to the rear. It was observed that the recoil spring had moved to pass between the bolt and the receiver tube. Once the spring was unthreaded from the bolt and removed, the bolt moved to the rear and can no longer move forward as the trigger appears to be disconnected from the sear.
As the trigger mechanism is sealed and the bolt handle is permanently fixed in place, we are unable to perform any testing with this model. Therefore this firearm is being returned to you for further repair/modification.
When you have completed whatever action is required to make this SaskSten, Sten, Mk3, Serial Number SS309CA function, you may return it to Specialized Firearms Support Services Section.
Regards....


Dear Mr ......

This sten is equiped with a bolt handle safety and a sear disconnect safety. The bolt handle safety locks the bolt in the forward position until released by pulling the bolt handle outward. This safety is designed to prevent the gun from going off accidentally if dropped onto it's butt, or if the bolt handle gets snagged. It is this safety that initially prevented the gun from being cocked.

When the return spring was removed so too was the tension holding the bolt handle in place, this allowed it to return to it's firing position.

I can't see how it's possible for the return spring to become wedged between the bolt and the receiver tube.

The sear disconnect safety is activated and deactivated by turning the selector switch .

Before I shipped the gun to you I sent detailed photographs of the disconnect safety modifications to Mr ..... along with full instructions on how to use it. I also told him about the MkV cocking handle safety. I have made these modifications to give the gun effective safety features. I am pleased to note they work as intended.


The links below show the details of the disconnect safety. I believe these are the pictures I previously sent to Mr .....

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/...rd/IMG_1306.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/...rd/IMG_1308.jpg

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/...et/IMG_1490.jpg

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/...et/IMG_1491.jpg


Please don't send the gun back until you have checked that the safety mechanisms are not engaged.


Thanks

Mick

[frenchy]

If I recall, the Finnish proof mark that is on the magazine stands for Suomi Army but then again, I may be wrong. Anyway, here is that proof mark on a parts kit that I have.

Hi all ! i just got myself a Sten gun MK3 and as the other photo i have that SA marking so that means it has been used by the Finnish army but around what time ? During the war ? after the war ?
The other side i could see a letter B and under a serial number C06624 as i was reading in this thread LB stands for the firm who produced this gun ,as i only see the letter B alone does it make this gun not original ? In one of the pic there is a pin that seams to be brass ? any idea why ?
I know a lot of questions sorry about that but it is so new to me .
I tried to take some pictures but the flash didn't like the metal .
I still see the grain of sand near the cover of the trigger
Thanks

Frenchy

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Frenchy, the Finnish Army used the Sten gun post war.

Cheers, Ade.

[kanister]

I found these informations in a forum, but i don't remember which one:

Around 1957 - 1958 Finnish Ministry of Defence made a deal with Interarmco (Samuel Cummings' company). In that deal Finland gave Interarmco much of the mixed weaponry, that it wanted to get rid off (74,381 Italian 7.35-mm Carcano M/38 carbines, 217 Swedish 6.5-mm light machineguns M/21, 2,117 French 8-mm Chauchat M/15 light machineguns, their magazines, other equipment and ammunition). In exchange Finland received 76,115 Sten Mk 2 and Mk 3 submachineguns and about 379,500 magazines for them. These submachineguns proved to contain some mixed parts and were in less than perfect shape, so they were all refurbished in Finnish depots. Besides being repaired and refished (blued) the only notable change was adding sling swivels. Sten saw active training use with Finnish Defence Forces in 1960's and 1970's until replaced by assault rifles and were declared obsolete sometime in early 1990's.

[Nige H]

Please don't send the gun back until you have checked that the safety mechanisms are not engaged.

I'll bet there was a few red faces amongst the firearms experts after ready your responce Mick


Rene

As to the Sten dancing problem, apparently having spoken to a REME armour who served in North Africa, the problem resulting from the Bolt "Short stroking" was well known, even when the first Stens were issued, as a result a large number of models, of all Mk's were field modified to the later specification,by drilling a hole for the cocking handle to lock in place. He also told me, after I asked him, that all cocking handles that he had ever seen already had the tab on the end for this additional bolt lock safety, even on new guns which had come straight from the factory. So it may have been a manufacturing oversight as opposed to a design error, even in my 1942 Sten Armourers catalogue, the drawings show the cocking handles ( all Mk's I - III ) with the additional nipple on the end, plus the bolt drawings, show smaller gauge hole going right thorough the rear section, to complete machined parts need for the additional safety feature. So it could be that the hole in the tube was missed off the drawing supplied to the manufactuer, or that some bright spark (possibly at Singers) couldn't see why there was a hole in the tubular receiver in such a strange placed, as it did not appear to serve any function in the guns operation, and so therefore omitted the hole from the final production run.

Nige.

[m3bobby]

Hi all ! i just got myself a Sten gun MK3 and as the other photo i have that SA marking so that means it has been used by the Finnish army but around what time ? During the war ? after the war ?
The other side i could see a letter B and under a serial number C06624 as i was reading in this thread LB stands for the firm who produced this gun ,as i only see the letter B alone does it make this gun not original ? In one of the pic there is a pin that seams to be brass ? any idea why ?
I know a lot of questions sorry about that but it is so new to me .
I tried to take some pictures but the flash didn't like the metal .
I still see the grain of sand near the cover of the trigger
Thanks

Frenchy

As far as I'm aware, Long branch didn't make the Mk3, only the Mk2. And i think they were all marked Long branch. The LB you refer to should be Lines Brothers who i think were the sole Mk3 manufacturer.

Finish STENs tend to have a nice gloss blueing, sling swivels that are welded/riveted to the stock and barrel shroud and a large ball type cocking handle (Because of the need for gloves). I bought one of the first ex finish STENs tobe released back in 1990 and its generally much better refinished than the original. Even the welds were ground smooth prior to refinishing.

[Mick]

I'll bet there was a few red faces amongst the firearms experts after ready your responce Mick


Rene

As to the Sten dancing problem, apparently having spoken to a REME armour who served in North Africa, the problem resulting from the Bolt "Short stroking" was well known, even when the first Stens were issued, as a result a large number of models, of all Mk's were field modified to the later specification,by drilling a hole for the cocking handle to lock in place. He also told me, after I asked him, that all cocking handles that he had ever seen already had the tab on the end for this additional bolt lock safety, even on new guns which had come straight from the factory. So it may have been a manufacturing oversight as opposed to a design error, even in my 1942 Sten Armourers catalogue, the drawings show the cocking handles ( all Mk's I - III ) with the additional nipple on the end, plus the bolt drawings, show smaller gauge hole going right thorough the rear section, to complete machined parts need for the additional safety feature. So it could be that the hole in the tube was missed off the drawing supplied to the manufactuer, or that some bright spark (possibly at Singers) couldn't see why there was a hole in the tubular receiver in such a strange placed, as it did not appear to serve any function in the guns operation, and so therefore omitted the hole from the final production run.

Nige.

The early stens did not have a cocking handle with the extension to lock the bolt in place. nearly all stens were mopdified at a later date. The bolt locking cocking handle was a MK4 thing, but the Mk4 never went into production. The cocking handle idea was used on the Mk5 and almost all MkII's and MkIII's were retrofitted. It can be easily done with a simple jig, I use them on the lot including Mk1's